Are we know in a totalitarian regime or something?

[Lastfreakinglegs]

10 years in prison for a lie. Of course a lie a out this is reprehensible, but..... Wtf.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-travel-rules-red-list-prison-b1799698.html

I think it's realy problematic that the basic, and I would say foundational, rights in a liberal democracy are have become completely unimportant, for an unspecified amount of time, with no clear timescale or even set of circumstances laid out to the public as to what justifies it.

And no, "global pandemic" is not enough. If this disease became endemic, it would not mean the state should be able to take away basic freedoms permanently or until they decide to return them, justified by it being for our protection. Freedom to travel within the nation, freedom to meet with other people or in groups - you can't have a liberal democracy without these kinds of individual rights. And if they are abrogated for too long it is a danger to our political institutions.

A sentence like this is crazy, and if they are finding it necessary maybe the problem is that people don't believe that their rules are legitimate.

@ktp100

FFS, one minute it's people are being 'OTT' for stringently sticking to Covid rules, now we're living in a feckin' 'totalitarian regime'!

This is what happens when too many people take the piss and drag this shit out.

The people of this country are absolutely reaping what they sowed.

Ah well done. You’ve fallen for the propaganda. The government want us to literally forget all of the blunders of 2020. And they were constant, highlights include pretending the pandemic wasn’t coming and not delaying leaving the EU (l’m talking about Jan 2020, not just Dec), Bozo not attending cobra meetings, allowing people to return from known hotspots from a spot of skiing in Italy (wtf), eat out to help out and of course the school u turn in January.

Now thanks to this hardline, in our grief and fatigue, last year can be forgiven and forgotten. The Tories are trying to save us after all, let’s keep them in power while the people can blame one another. Bravo.

yes its ridiculous considering you can maim someone and get less than that no doubt , we are moving towards a regime and have been for sometime now , what im wondering is how many more new varients that require them to announce more lockdowns and restrictions there will be before the bloody penny finally starts to drop for people

I think prison is absolutely right, but up to 6 months would be far more appropriate.

Any prison time is a massive deterrent. Would Rita Ora have hired out a restaurant for her and 30 mates if she might have spent the next month eating prison grub? Fines like £30k are just an additional cost to her, and prob more kudos from her friends. Fines don’t deter the wealthy.

10 years, on the other hand, is ridiculous and will never be used.

a virus that disproportionately kills the old/weak isn't a freak or a disaster, it's nature. This needs to end now

Oh - okay then. I'll remember that when I need an ICU bed for whatever reason. Geewhiz I guess cancer is just 'nature' as well.

There's quite a few viruses and diseases that favour the old and the weak - why not just let the whole lot die? that would be so much easier than all this fuss.

And as to the rest of those panicking on this thread. Stop totally over reacting - it's all empty rhetoric from the government. They can't even put a proper quarantine system in place!! Still haven't done it!!!

I agree, OP, it's disproportionate sentencing and a worrying development. Possible custodial sentence, but six months to a year would be enough deterrent. People will commit worse crimes to avoid being reported for something which confers a possible ten year sentence.

@ichundich

The fact that many people have seemingly no issue with a sentence that is so completely out of proportion to the crime shows how in the past 11 months we have been brainwashed into accepting all these extrreme measures 'for the sake of getting the pandemic under control'. Only it hasn't worked! It would have made sense to close the borders last March. Now this virus is here to stay and we can't afford to put our lives on hold forever ffs.

Or perhaps it shows that some people understand that this sentence is intended to be an extreme deterrent so that people are not tempted to avoid disclosing that they have been to a red list country? Perhaps it shows that some people are aware of just how little personal responsibility some other people have and that putting a quarantine system in place is pointless if people are tempted to declare incorrectly.

I’m the last person on Earth to support the Tories but there is zero point having this quarantine system if people think they can get away with being dishonest about where they have been.

Maybe we’ve seen too many people on MN who think their right to a holiday trumps public safety.

It’s not a sentence for lying - it’s a sentence for evading necessary quarantine measures and endangering the public. This is clearly a maximum sentence.

This is bugger all like The Handmaid’s Tale, FFS.

a virus that disproportionately kills the old/weak isn't a freak or a disaster, it's nature. This needs to end now

Fucking hell.

Have you happened to see the green paper on vaccines?

It has death counts by age group just from February to July last year. Over 5,000 people under 65 died just in those 5 months.

It may make people feel better to think that it’s only old and sick people being hospitalised and dying but that’s far from true.

@Scbchl

Considering paedophiles get lesser sentences I think its bloody shocking.

Yep. Until all of the people who have raped and violently assaulted others are in prison, there is no consent from me to use my tax money for this. It's so much more unacceptable because the public have to be punished because they fucked up at the start, and yet again last summer, when there were opportunities to make this way of living unnecessary if they had only listened...

Not that anyone in Government will care about the comparison you've (rightly) made OP. Until people stop electing these muppets, we'll get muppet policies unfortunately.

@Snowsnowglorioussnow

I wonder if the people of New Zealand felt the same op, when you dream of a holiday, is it to New Zealand, the place that has stamped it out?.

Most people here would rather be there right now. Schools open, travel around the country (they have some amazing beaches and vineyards as well as the fjords) ok. No masks, fine to go to restaurants, bars, sports stadiums, theatres etc. All normal. I think most of us could live with that and no holidays abroad, for a while. If only the Government had listened to those of us who told them to shut the borders last Feb, eh? How different it all could have been. It's a shame that all of us who saw it coming were accused of "scaremongering". I guess people reap what they sow, and drag the rest of us along for the ride just like with Brexit,

Won't be forgiving the people who took so long for the obvious to dawn on them in either case.

Have you seen the costs for the self isolation? £1700. I guess that's is per person!
So as usual, the rich can get on with thier lives, if they can afford the additional cost to thier holiday, and the rest of us are left behind.

There is no way most people could afford the fees, so will either lie, or be stuck watching all the politicians and rich people enjoying holidays then self isolating in luxury hotels on the way home

@Wildswim

New Zealand, the place that has stamped it out

Viruses can't be stamped out.

You can't lockdown forever.

It can. In some circumstances:

China prevented it happening with covid by suppressing information in the early stages when eradication would have been easier.

Polio has been eradicated in all but 4 countries on Earth through vaccines and infection control procedures.

It's very difficult with a highly infectious respiratory illness with a long incubation period and asympomatic carriers though. Hence why is should have been controlled at source and not allowed to become a pandemic rather than people saying it needed shutting down in Dec/ Jan last year being called scaremongers. Let's just say Taiwan, NZ. Aus etc agreed with people like me and the UK....well. It only has itself to blame now.

@sadpapercourtesan

No. We're not in a totalitarian regime. We're in a global pandemic.

Honestly, I understand why people are freaked out by the strength of the measures needed to control this virus - for most of us, a pandemic is pretty much the ONLY circumstance in which we'd countenance our civil liberties being limited in this way, and none of us thought we'd actually see one.

But it's happening, and we all need to do our part. Whining about totalitarianism and conspiracy theories aren't helping.

Completely agree. It's a shame there aren't more sanctions for people breaking all the rules. We have so many people struggling with lockdown and job losses and it will never end until it's properly taken seriously. If you go abroad don't bring it back with you.

Is this Saint Boris’s plan to create new jobs? Build more jails to house the rule-breakers, because the existing ones are full to bursting? The more these announcements go on, the more this looks like a PLANdemic, with no end in sight. And I’m only half joking. Either that, or it’s the usual “test the plebs’ reaction” leak. Will Cummings be the first to be imprisoned in this way? Or will pigs fly?

There is no way most people could afford the fees, so will either lie, or be stuck watching all the politicians and rich people enjoying holidays then self isolating in luxury hotels on the way home

If its anything like Australia, if you're a rich celebrity like Nicole Kidman or Matt damon you get to isolate in your own home or a luxury air bnb. None of those rules for those people.

A ban on travelling abroad for lengthy periods of time is far better than any fines or prison sentence as a deterrent. After a hearing in the courts so that justice is done properly.

No summer holiday, no skiing trip, no trip to Dubai for 'work' for several years would be a far more suitable sentence. More likely for the courts to impose this than some lengthy prison sentence.

It's a load of bollocks. You can imagine them discussing it in a sweaty little Whitehall back office "what can we roll out that makes us look tough on Coronavirus but which doesn't cost a penny? I know!"...

What if your travel is essential will the government pay for quarantine. 160 pound a night in some substandard hotel for rooms that would be empty otherwise.

PLANdemic

Oh brother...

So as usual, the rich can get on with thier lives, if they can afford the additional cost to thier holiday, and the rest of us are left behind.

Why would anyone, rich or poor, go on holiday during a global pandemic, let alone to a country on a red list?

I understand that some people need to travel in limited circumstances - caring for a loved one, death of a loved one etc. But the very fact that people are talking about bloody holidays is madness.

Quarantine is increasingly necessary. Yes it sucks that those who are better off can afford to travel but what’s the solution - should the state have to fund quarantine so people can go on holiday wherever they want?

I would support financial assistance for those who have an emergency and need to travel, but there’s no way we should be covering quarantine costs for people to return from a holiday they chose to go on.

There’s plenty of stuff wealthy people can do that I can’t. Plenty of people are in a position where they couldn’t afford a holiday in the first place and I’ve never seen anyone insist this means no one can go on holiday.

Also it all seems rather late. Why not do this last March? Other countries did.

Even if you can afford 10 days in quarantine I don’t think it’s an appealing prospect and people wouldn’t do it for a holiday ..

Clearly some people believe that a ten year prison sentence is appropriate for someone whose actions 'might' lead to the deaths of other people from Covid. On that basis, who are we sending to prison (and for how long) for discharging Covid positive patients into care homes, where huge numbers of people did die as a result? Or is it one rule for some but not for others?

Perhaps with an eye to future enquiries into this shit show they are now over reacting in response to the fact that they were so fucking useless at the start of the pandemic, with a leader walking around boasting how he shook hands with everybody he met at a hospital and for weeks allowed hundreds of thousands to fly in from hotspots and without tests or restrictions go straight on to public transport including a packed London underground.

And they should enforce it too.