Are we know in a totalitarian regime or something?

[Lastfreakinglegs]

10 years in prison for a lie. Of course a lie a out this is reprehensible, but..... Wtf.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-travel-rules-red-list-prison-b1799698.html

@BamboozledandBefuddled

Clearly some people believe that a ten year prison sentence is appropriate for someone whose actions 'might' lead to the deaths of other people from Covid. On that basis, who are we sending to prison (and for how long) for discharging Covid positive patients into care homes, where huge numbers of people did die as a result? Or is it one rule for some but not for others?

Quite!

@BamboozledandBefuddled

Clearly some people believe that a ten year prison sentence is appropriate for someone whose actions 'might' lead to the deaths of other people from Covid. On that basis, who are we sending to prison (and for how long) for discharging Covid positive patients into care homes, where huge numbers of people did die as a result? Or is it one rule for some but not for others?

The 10 years is the maximum sentence for repeat offenders, not routine typical sentence for first time offenders.

I think the possibility of a custodial sentence is required.

No least because it might focus the mind on why we have quarantine now, and why it is important not to evade it.

If we brew up a vaccine-resistant strain here then it's just our bad luck. But if we imported one? Dreadful prospect and the cost to us is renewed deaths and unpleasant illness both directly from potential new variant and from associated lockdown. Which may be needed for the few months it takes to tweak and make an updated vaccine

Yes we seem to be. That is grossly disproportionate.

I couldn't afford the holiday, never mind the spending money, quarantine fees or covid test fees so its not an issue for me but I do think the sentence doesn't actually fit the crime in this instance.

Why all this angst? You (presumably) will never accidentally fall foul of this. You're not being threatened with jail for picking up easter eggs with your essential shopping. You're not even being forbidden to travel to and from hotspots, if that's your thing. Just that if you do return from a hotspot, and you lie about it to evade quarantine, you may be jailed.

I am no fan of the Tories and think they have failed at every step, but this is not totalitarianism. You're free to go, free to come back. Just quarantine on your return.

Also what would happen if we keep getting new strains imported before vaccines can take hold? Do I want my kid to miss out on school indefinitely while people keep travelling internationally? I do not. And I say that as an immigrant who is desperate to travel internationally to see family myself.

@BamboozledandBefuddled

Clearly some people believe that a ten year prison sentence is appropriate for someone whose actions 'might' lead to the deaths of other people from Covid. On that basis, who are we sending to prison (and for how long) for discharging Covid positive patients into care homes, where huge numbers of people did die as a result? Or is it one rule for some but not for others?

Brilliant

@tikha

What if your travel is essential will the government pay for quarantine. 160 pound a night in some substandard hotel for rooms that would be empty otherwise.

As an aside from the prison issue, It'll be interesting to "follow the money" and see who gets the quarantine contracts and how much travellers are charged in reality...because lets not kid ourselves that there's not money to be made here.

Once upon a time (early last year, pre Covid) you could easily pick up room on one of the decent Heathrow perimeter hotel chains, and feed yourself, for under £100 per night.....

A number of the British Public have proven time and time again through this pandemic that they are selfish twats that will only follow rules if they think they will get caught or there is a penalty severe enough for them to not want to risk it

You only need to see all the ' I'm not sticking to the rules past March', 'I have a human right for a holiday, and I'm not going to quarantine because I won't get caught' threads on here

It's pretty shit that they have put this in place but instead of 'wah wah handmaids tale', perhaps people should see it as a sign of what a serious issue new variants could pose.

Personally I think anyone travelling for a holiday during a pandemic is a bit short on brain cells anyway, but provided they are truthful on their forms (and just look at the pride people have had on here for providing fake information to T&T so we know that some would have no issue with flat out lying to bypass the rules) and stick to quarantine rules there is nothing for them to worry about.

But no, people would rather wail about their human fucking rights for a summer holiday to Portugal and fuck everyone else.

I doubt many, if any people will actually get 10 years so wouldn't worry.

Life will go back to normal eventually. Just might take a bit longer than we think. But it will go back to normal.

@ichundich

The fact that many people have seemingly no issue with a sentence that is so completely out of proportion to the crime shows how in the past 11 months we have been brainwashed into accepting all these extrreme measures 'for the sake of getting the pandemic under control'. Only it hasn't worked! It would have made sense to close the borders last March. Now this virus is here to stay and we can't afford to put our lives on hold forever ffs.

Or people are just thoroughly fucked off with the piss takers

The main point is that sentences for serious crimes are too low in this country. 10 years for avoiding quarantine and potentially bringing a new strain of Covid in may actually be a deterrent.

£10,000 is a lot to me. I wouldn't host a party for 40 people and risk that fine. But people do.

@GalesThisMorning

Why all this angst? You (presumably) will never accidentally fall foul of this. You're not being threatened with jail for picking up easter eggs with your essential shopping. You're not even being forbidden to travel to and from hotspots, if that's your thing. Just that if you do return from a hotspot, and you lie about it to evade quarantine, you may be jailed.

I am no fan of the Tories and think they have failed at every step, but this is not totalitarianism. You're free to go, free to come back. Just quarantine on your return.

Exactly right. I’m a bit perplexed by the response here. All year I’ve seen people saying they want borders closed - you can’t fully close borders, you can limit travel and quarantine those who do have to travel. There’s literally no point having a quarantine system in place if people will just evade it. Hopefully this will prevent people from doing so. Travelling into the U.K. without quarantine puts all the progress we’ve made with vaccination at risk - it’s a serious matter. I highly doubt they’ll be regularly dishing out 10 year sentences.

Ten years is the maximum. Very few offenders get the maximum sentence for anything, it is only the very worst cases that get maximum sentences.

And I'm sure it's intended as a deterrent. For deterrents to work, they have to be harsh.

I'm ok with it. If it stops new variants spreading here, variants that might not be prevented by the existing vaccines, I think it's fine.

I also think they should have done it a year ago. I can't believe our borders have stayed open for so long when there's a global pandemic going on.

The 10 years is the maximum sentence for repeat offenders, not routine typical sentence for first time offenders.

Auntie Stella I fully appreciate that a ten year sentence is only likely to be used for repeat offenders. In view of the fact that Covid positive patients were repeatedly discharged from hospital to care homes, thereby causing multiple deaths, then once again, who are we sending to prison, and for how long?

Those who believe we are on the verge of living in The Handmaid's Tale and 1984, would you feel the same if this virus was targeting children instead or would you want to stop someone bringing it in?

Also be aware of how this is being reported. It won't be as dramatic as it is being made to sound.

@Thomasina2021

Even if you can afford 10 days in quarantine I don’t think it’s an appealing prospect and people wouldn’t do it for a holiday ..

IMHO the effect on holidays and holiday travel is being blown out of proportion at the moment.

Holiday traffic makes up the minority of the footfall at the major international airports like Heathrow and it will have dropped off even more over the last year..

I'd reckon most of those coming from countries on the red list and subject to quarantine will be either (essential) business travellers or those who need to travel to link up with families e.g. to deal with a family emergency.

Lord Sumption has written an article pointing out that a 10 year jail sentence for this doesn't meet the proportionality test in European law, so expect to see more of these use of draconian sanctions for politically motivated purposes (here is to maje the government look more electable) on years to come.

We do generally see this variation in sentencing in totalitarian regimes, so I voted YANBU. It's generally viewed as an abuse of power. It's OK while the sanction isn't used by judges to its full effect, but we already have a weak seieration of powers in this country, so that's very muc dependent on judges being unbiased and treating everyone the same to prevent it.

The usual comments about "some people being irresponsible" etc to justify anything the government does.

@BamboozledandBefuddled

The 10 years is the maximum sentence for repeat offenders, not routine typical sentence for first time offenders.

Auntie Stella I fully appreciate that a ten year sentence is only likely to be used for repeat offenders. In view of the fact that Covid positive patients were repeatedly discharged from hospital to care homes, thereby causing multiple deaths, then once again, who are we sending to prison, and for how long?

And that is a really good point.

Imagine if we subjected everyone with the same draconian sentencing powers.

A doctor who fails to read a positive test result.

A care home worker who doesn't answer 5heir phone to a test and trace notification before going to work.

Someone who forgets their mask and nips into sainsbury with their collar pushed up and later tests positive.

All subject to 10 years in jail?

@GreenlandTheMovie now the government are free from European checks and balances I think you're right, we will see more of this. Terrifying.

Imagine if we subjected everyone with the same draconian sentencing powers. A doctor who fails to read a positive test result.
A care home worker who doesn't answer 5heir phone to a test and trace notification before going to work. Someone who forgets their mask and nips into sainsbury with their collar pushed up and later tests positive. All subject to 10 years in jail

OMG!!!!!

Reductio ad absurdum.

What ineffable rubbish.

No it's not a totalitarian regime, don't be ridiculous. It's an elected government who were elected by the people to make laws. That's what they're doing. If people don't like the laws or what the government does, they can vote them out next election.

The ten years seems harsh on paper, but that's the maximum sentence. For people who deliberately lie, make no attempt to comply and do so repeatedly. Comparisons to rape or manslaughter are irrelevant, but if you do want to compare them, both have maximum sentences of life imprisonment. But that is reserved for the worst offenders - serial rapists for example rather than the odd date rape chancer. Most people who commit an offence don't get the maximum sentence, and courts generally try to avoid sending people to prison at all if they can (especially women). So I doubt anyone will end up serving a decade for Covid breaches, unless they really try to.

Honestly I feel no connection with half the baying British population anymore. Where's the sense.

Well seeing the sentences handed over for drink drinking (and killing someone in those conditions), rape etc... yes it does like a really heavy sentence and completely at odd with the rest if the system....

I’m wondering, as others have pointed out before me, what is the sentence for completely messing the handling of the pandemic, the lies etc...? Will our politicians be held into account with the same severity? I mean after all it IS a pandemic and it’s the life of people in the U.K. that are in jeopardy (eg by not listening to experts who warmed them numerous time about not doing one thing or really having to do another ‘to save life’).
Does it also apply to politicians who put people at risk by driving across the country in the middle of lockdown etc... too?