Are we know in a totalitarian regime or something?

[Lastfreakinglegs]

10 years in prison for a lie. Of course a lie a out this is reprehensible, but..... Wtf.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-travel-rules-red-list-prison-b1799698.html

On the one hand, there are a few posters who’ve churned out the sentiment that we should be locked in our houses, army on the streets and food parcels delivered to our doors.

On the other hand, there’s a bunch that seems to think the government are delighting in screwing everything up so as to permanently remove liberties and have some kind of weird control over us.

Meanwhile, in the middle, the majority of us are finding it completely shit, not salivating at restrictions, trying to stumble our way through it and trying to keep an eye on numbers, sensible (JVT) info, and, yes, noting those curtailed liberties to ensure that they are lifted in line with how things progress.

So many have gone nuts at the “10 year sentence for travel”. Why?! Firstly, it’s “up to 10 years”. Secondly, it’s for falsifying information as to where you’ve travelled from. It’s not a sentence for going on holiday/to visit family etc. It’s for falsifying where you have travelled from. So many people months/weeks ago saying why didn’t we close borders. And now it’s a problem?

If you’re travelling within the law, which I’d imagine most on this site would be, then there’s no problem/risk at all! No one is going to be “jailed” for travelling, but restrictions are in place for certain countries - why is this a problem?

Do you even know what fascism means?

Well it's not fascism in the nationalistic sense, obviously. However I think you could argue that we are seeing an increasing tendency towards suppression of individual liberties and autocratic control, both of which are key elements of fascism.

@Furries

On the one hand, there are a few posters who’ve churned out the sentiment that we should be locked in our houses, army on the streets and food parcels delivered to our doors.

On the other hand, there’s a bunch that seems to think the government are delighting in screwing everything up so as to permanently remove liberties and have some kind of weird control over us.

Meanwhile, in the middle, the majority of us are finding it completely shit, not salivating at restrictions, trying to stumble our way through it and trying to keep an eye on numbers, sensible (JVT) info, and, yes, noting those curtailed liberties to ensure that they are lifted in line with how things progress.

So many have gone nuts at the “10 year sentence for travel”. Why?! Firstly, it’s “up to 10 years”. Secondly, it’s for falsifying information as to where you’ve travelled from. It’s not a sentence for going on holiday/to visit family etc. It’s for falsifying where you have travelled from. So many people months/weeks ago saying why didn’t we close borders. And now it’s a problem?

If you’re travelling within the law, which I’d imagine most on this site would be, then there’s no problem/risk at all! No one is going to be “jailed” for travelling, but restrictions are in place for certain countries - why is this a problem?

Well said

We are now in a totalitarian regime, yes. This government has shutdown our freedom and given contracts to their crony buddies. It makes me sick thinking about it ( and I think about it all the time).

Are we now in a totalitarian regime or something?

No. I'm minded that if the Covid Doomwatch Dementors on MN had their way we totally would be. Thankfully speculation is as far as they can go on this one.

The fine is silly money and if it is implemented it will be on working class people, to the joy of Schadenfreude's

On the one hand, there are a few posters who’ve churned out the sentiment that we should be locked in our houses, army on the streets and food parcels delivered to our doors.

On the other hand, there’s a bunch that seems to think the government are delighting in screwing everything up so as to permanently remove liberties and have some kind of weird control over us.

Meanwhile, in the middle, the majority of us are finding it completely shit, not salivating at restrictions, trying to stumble our way through it and trying to keep an eye on numbers, sensible (JVT) info, and, yes, noting those curtailed liberties to ensure that they are lifted in line with how things progress.

This is a perfect summary. I do hope you are right and we are the majority.

A lot of people would probably say they would skip isolation and pay a fine... But they won't do that if it's a jail sentence.

Ah but if what Matt Hancock's wishes are being reported correctly that's not what is being planned.

Open to correction but as I understand it the Government want:

A £5,000 - £10,000 fine for anyone failing to quarantine in their designated hotel.

but

Have an up to ten year term in prison available for those that offer up incorrect paperwork.......(to do that the HMG are using the provisions of the 1981 Forgery and Counterfeiting Act).

So "skip managed quarantine" - up to £10,000 fine, but fill in paperwork incorrectly and it's up to 10 year prison sentence..

I think that's why some people think a sense of proportion has gone missing.

@FOJN - I’m clinging onto my summary being right, otherwise I’ll lose the plot! Think it helps that, irl, I don’t know anyone at either of the extreme ends - only seems to be on here that things get ramped up.

@WanderingMilly

First everyone gets upset that people have been allowed to travel into the country, bringing virus strains in with them, with cries of "why didn't we shut our borders?". When we finally do, there are angry outcries that we're doing so. Sadly, there are so many people who don't care or who are willing to flout the rules, there have to be OTT drastic measures to ensure they really don't....

Other countries have been doing this for a while, for instance Iceland has quarantined incomers since March last year. They fill in forms before flying, take tests which they pay for themselves and are placed in a hotel once they arrive. The quarantine is severe....there's no escape. Sneak out and you're in the middle of a remote lava field....you won't get very far. Not a single chance of ducking it or lying, you go directly from the 'plane. And pay for it all yourself.

Yes, it's to deter people from travelling, why not? We're in the middle of a pandemic! Only if it's absolutely seriously necessary should anyone be travelling, drastic measures will ensure this is so....

@WanderingMilly No... this is not the case at all in Iceland. You have to fill in a form saying where you intend to quarantine. This can be your house or any private residence or a hotel. You can choose and you travel on from the airport independently. I've done the border quarantine (in my own house) and it is not particularly 'severe' - for example, people in quarantine are allowed outside for walks or bike rides etc. if they stay 2 metres from other people. Plus it's only 5 days book-ended by two screening tests. Iceland's border measures are quite stringent compared to a lot of other countries, but they are nowhere near the draconian situation you describe! You are also exempt from any quarantine if you've had the vaccine or had the disease and recovered.

The Icelandic economy is hugely dependent on tourism so they've been trying to keep it as manageable and fair as they possibly can. Many countries considered low risk have been exempt at certain points as well.

Where are you getting your information?

@Furries

On the one hand, there are a few posters who’ve churned out the sentiment that we should be locked in our houses, army on the streets and food parcels delivered to our doors.

On the other hand, there’s a bunch that seems to think the government are delighting in screwing everything up so as to permanently remove liberties and have some kind of weird control over us.

Meanwhile, in the middle, the majority of us are finding it completely shit, not salivating at restrictions, trying to stumble our way through it and trying to keep an eye on numbers, sensible (JVT) info, and, yes, noting those curtailed liberties to ensure that they are lifted in line with how things progress.

So many have gone nuts at the “10 year sentence for travel”. Why?! Firstly, it’s “up to 10 years”. Secondly, it’s for falsifying information as to where you’ve travelled from. It’s not a sentence for going on holiday/to visit family etc. It’s for falsifying where you have travelled from. So many people months/weeks ago saying why didn’t we close borders. And now it’s a problem?

If you’re travelling within the law, which I’d imagine most on this site would be, then there’s no problem/risk at all! No one is going to be “jailed” for travelling, but restrictions are in place for certain countries - why is this a problem?

If you can’t see why it’s a problem then you are part of it too, the power hungry lunatics calling for this. Listen to Charles Walker, the government are on dangerous grounds.

2021 will decide our future and it’s not looking good as they will keep on imposing and IMO king until the penny stops for people like you particularly

@Lastfreakinglegs

It's used perfectly correctly

Totalitarianism is a concept for a form of government or political system that prohibits opposition parties, restricts individual opposition to the state and its claims, and exercises an extremely high degree of control over public and private life.

Imposing an excessive maximum sentence for an offence doesn't fit those definitions imo.

@PuffinShop - good to get updated information.

My info was from a friend, admittedly last summer, she was (she said) put into a hotel next to the airport on arrival which she reckons was in the middle of a lava field! From her description, it sounded quite stringent.

Happy to be put right, thank you.

@WanderingMilly Well, in a way it's unfortunate because it's quite easy to ignore it if you wanted to and definitely some people have, but overall everything seems to be working reasonably well. You can't get through the border without having at least one test now.

The airport is in a lava field, but your friend could have chosen to quarantine in different accommodation. If she'd done it in a guest apartment she could have taken walks outside at least! Or theoretically said fuck it and gone out to a bar, but I assume your friend isn't that kind of person

They are thinking of doing the whole 'enforced quarantine hotel' thing but they haven't so far and to be honest I hope they don't.

It's a maximum sentence, not a likely one. The maximum sentences for all kinds of things are a bit draconian and always have been. It can be criticized as an almost-certainly empty threat, which in the long run is likely to increase disrespect for the law; but it hardly heralds a totalitarian state.

@ddl1

It's a maximum sentence, not a likely one. The maximum sentences for all kinds of things are a bit draconian and always have been. It can be criticized as an almost-certainly empty threat, which in the long run is likely to increase disrespect for the law; but it hardly heralds a totalitarian state.

I think it does, and I think the third part of the definition give above explains why.

exercises an extremely high degree of control over public and private life

Having such long maximum sentences are extremely intimidating to the public and scare them into submission, rather than the partnership of co-operation that democracies aim for.

The current situation in the UK certainly does meet the third part of this definition of a totalitarian state at the moment. We don't even have basic rights at all - the right to go outside our own homes without reasonable excuse, the right to a social or family life, the right to protest, freedom of assembly and association, etc.

It depends if you are referring to the basic rights in the ECHR or the more enhanced rights in the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights, most of which are embedded into our legal system.

We don't even have basic rights at all - the right to go outside our own homes without reasonable excuse, the right to a social or family life, the right to protest, freedom of assembly and association, etc.

But our rights are being taken away (temporarily, I hope!) by Covid, not by the government.

I would risk a fine. I'm not prepared to risk death or serious illness with long Covid. Or to not be able to get treatment for other things, if the hospitals are overwhelmed with Covid. I've experienced long-term ill-health in the past, and I'm not prepared to go back to that time if I can help it! I don't like the current British government, and didn't vote for them, but I've never experienced a government in this country - not even Thatcher's - that was half as tyrannical as disease can be.

And while there may be curfews and other tough rules about leaving your home in some countries, in the UK, although you're advised to stay local, people are not prosecuted simply for going outside without an 'excuse note'.

It is the Government stripping away our freedoms
Covid is an excuse, an enabler

It depends if you are referring to the basic rights in the ECHR or the more enhanced rights in the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights, most of which are embedded into our legal system

I’ve never understood the human rights laws about privacy. Was Shannon Matthews given any say about whether she wanted a tv programme made about her and her family? That would seem to be an invasion of privacy.
Or the Royal family and The Crown for that matter.

@PetraRabbit Yanbu and the passivity of people failing to question the removal of their rights is the scariest part.
Exactly. We should be SHOUTING AND SCREAMING about this. It is absolutely terrifying how well the government spin machine works in keeping the masses not only quiet, docile and accepting, but actively CLAMOURING for more restrictions.

@Northpole23 - seriously, am fed up of of alarmists like you and a number of others on here. You seem determined to ship up some bloody weird rhetoric of a bloody Tory, money loving government wanting to totally decimate the country and it’s citizens.

I’m done with trying to reason with this type of rhetoric. Take the vaccine/don’t take the vaccine. Lie about travelling as that’s how you’ll possibly land a sentence like this. Go riot if it makes you feel better, rather than furiously tapping away at your keyboard - so many of you on here constantly spouting shite, but none of you seem to actually DO anything rather than type words.

We are currently moving towards a much better position - which many a few months ago were adamant on here that wouldn’t happen for ages (along the lines of “we will never have a vaccine for at least a couple of years”). Why on earth so many on here now seem determined to try to fuck up this opportunity to move forward is beyond me. And if that makes my view a part of the problem then I fully accept the charge.

I’ve asked this question a couple of times on other threads, but no one ever answers. If you could choose any country to be in right now, with regards to how things have been handled, where would you move to? The caveat is, not just how Covid has been handled, but how life is there normally before Covid.

Furries I've never seen that question asked anywhere before, but I'll give you my answer.

Switzerland, Sweden, The Netherlands or Germany, in that order.

I was in Switzerland last summer, and life was normal, except for mask wearing on public transport. There has never been an internal travel ban. Groups could mingle all summer, while we were still restricuveiy limited here. The thinking is very much on local democracy via the cantons and yes, they have a lot of referendums.

I've lived in the netgerkabds, and I much prefer their health service to the nhs. My Dutch GPS were far more on the ball than the average go here, anything wrong and yiure sent to the hospital direct for blood tests, cand you get the results far more quickly than here. I felt in much safer hands.

@GreenlandTheMovie - thanks for the reply. I’ve lost track of the threads I’ve posted on, but have definitely asked it at least twice, it’s nice to finally get a response.

That’s interesting re Switzerland. I’m assuming the cantons each have their own rules and regulations (rather like the US states)? This is something I am always split over with my view. You could be in a “good” canton with regards to policies, whilst other cantons struggle - and vice versa. If you were to move there, would you steer your move to choose/avoid certain cantons?

That sounds very positive re the Netherlands health system. Feeling in safer hands is something to strive for. I appreciate our NHS, or the ethos of it and for a vast number of those who work in it. I do hope that, once we emerge from the pandemic, that the electorate here finally put it at the top of the agenda and that the government finally acknowledge and set out a plan to start to rectify what SHOULD be one of our greatest assets.