Are we know in a totalitarian regime or something?

[Lastfreakinglegs]

10 years in prison for a lie. Of course a lie a out this is reprehensible, but..... Wtf.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-travel-rules-red-list-prison-b1799698.html

Explained differently- pre lockdown we were in a consensual power relationship with the government- our needs were met mostly. With lockdown the government took the role of coercive controller- through necessity to begin with

• isolating us from family and friends
• controlling how we spent our time
• limiting our access to work/money

Now a clever government would understand that power relationship and work to minimise the negative effects of it to keep the power relationship mutual. Here’s where they have gone wrong

• continued threats and scaremongering
• breaking promises constantly
• gaslighting - eg 5000 deaths a day- trying to make us believe things that were not true
• generally trying to elicit desired behaviour through threats. Now, like any victims of abuse some are saying “Surely that’s not right” and wondering if this power relationship between us is mutual anymore. This is actually a great insight into how abusive relationships happen. I am not saying that the government is trying to abuse us, I am saying they need to recognise the delicate power relationship that exists and not put themselves in the position of abuser by threats and intimidation precisely because of the above. Their tactic of scaring people isn’t having the desired effect. I realise I must look like a troublemaker on here- I am not. This does remind me of the coercive control and this is why I find it hard to say nothing-

It’s for the government to recreate the consensual power relationship again and build trust again.

@Pan2
"When the pandemic excesses are over...we will still have Johnson and the rest of the ghouls removing any opposition, by stealthy and by clear and obvious methods."

Not a Johnson fan but if he wipes out all the anti semites still lurking in the Labour Party it would be a bad thing. Kier Starmer won't take them on as they have all gone to ground again any keeping quiet but they are there waiting!

@Createsuser that’s so true! I hadn’t thought about it like that, but you have hit the nail completely on the head.

constantly moving the goal posts I think is also a abusive (“lockdown just until the first 4 priority groups are vaccinated”, then schools “might open on 8th March”, then cases need to get down to 1000 per day, mutants mean borders cannot open etc) I can imagine abusers in relationships constantly move the goal post in an attempt to justify their behaviour and put their behaviour upon the abused

sunflower - err...what has Johnson and his cohorts venality, corruption and incompetence got the slightest to do with Labour antisemitism? (or tory's for that matter, or it's islamophobia?)

Whataboutery only.

@crazyontheweekend whilst like you I question the restrictions, especially that because they have been implemented so late they have gone on longer than could have been the case, I disagree with your view they are extreme. Look at those even now in some other countries, look at what Spain and Italy had last March, even look nearer to some of those in the Isle of Man and Jersey/Guernsey at times.

@Createsuser whilst you are not suggesting the government is abusive, the point you make is valid about the nature of their behaviour. What I think has added to this is the 'do as I say not do as I do' behaviour, exemplified by not sacking Dominic Cummings and more recently by a completely unnecessary trip to Scotland (which could have been replaced by travelling only a couple of miles to view the same activity).

@Createsuser That is so right what you are saying. In fact, I think I will use some of those arguments in my next letter to my MP. The government are abusing their power, pure and simple; riots and civil unrest about this alone are long overdue. Let’s see what they say on 22nd: and if it’s the usual piffle waffle with no end in sight, it’s time for the public to DEMAND some answers from our highly paid public servants.

@Crazycatlady83 You are so right! They do need to be mindful that our freedom and Liberty has been taken from us, along with the right to see loved ones, for people in certain industries the right to earn money, travel, get a decent education etc. Adding fear into this equation making promises that then don’t translate is exactly the behaviour that is seen in coercive control- until that person is a shadow of themselves - living a life they don’t recognise and terrified that they will break these unnatural rules. I think at the beginning we were in it together but increasingly we are not. They must know people are desperate to leave the house, see family, work and travel and how much desperation people feel when their hopes are constantly dashed.

Yes it is and covid was the excuse they needed,
We will never go back to the freedom we once had, it's becoming engrained and most people are happy to do as dictated to.

This is the only sane thread on this topic right now.

My mother commented the other day that people are happy to give up their rights because deep down most people are fascists. Judging by the public acceptance of how the govt is handling things, there seems to be a grain of truth in there somewhere. The really scary part is that the left in this country is currently displaying even more fascist tendencies than the right, calling for more and harder controls. There is no sane and rational opposition.

@teezletangler I was amazed today that Kier told Boris off not not being hard enough on travellers. My jaw was literally on the floor!

[quote Createsuser]@teezletangler I was amazed today that Kier told Boris off not not being hard enough on travellers. My jaw was literally on the floor![/quote]
I hinted at this towards the end of my admittedly TL;DR post last night about the logic of why controlled quarantine is only happening now, and why it didn't happen twelve months ago..

Politicians have realised controlled quarantine is a vote winner with some (certainly some here) and I guess they think the harder they make themselves sound on the issue the more they think they appeal to those voters.

Politicians have realised controlled quarantine is a vote winner with some (certainly some here) and I guess they think the harder they make themselves sound on the issue the more they think they appeal to those voters.

Your post on this last night was a good one. KS knows as well as anybody else that blanket 10 day hotel quarantine is an unworkable plan. But for some terrifying reason it's popular, so it's become a game of hard-man one-upmanship. Despite the fact that just 3 weeks ago he didn't think hotel quarantine was necessary . Frightening! (And oh so easy to be in opposition, knowing you'll never have to follow through on anything!)

@notimagain I couldn’t agree more. And people are crazy enough to think that banning all trips abroad / closing borders will somehow miraculously solve all our problems. Rather than we are just being played, again. One professor today said they anticipate looking into variants for c19 for the next 10 years. Do we shut our borders for the next 10 years? Have the threat of hotel quarantine hanging over the travel industry for the next 10 years? It’s complete madness. C19 is here to stay, the variants are here to stay. Perhaps if we got better at managing it (more investments in our NHS, faster roll outs of proven drugs as treatment, manufacturing vaccines for the variations and accepting some level of “risk” in our lives again) we wouldn’t see the only option as locking us all up (and being told it’s our fault!)

I bet the people calling for hotel quarantine, tougher lockdown etc. will be the same moaning that their taxes have increased / services cut or pensions lowered when the time comes to pay all this dedication to the lockdown cause back! And they will scream they have worked throughout and it should be the lazy furloughed workers out there paying back their debt to society (without thinking those workers have probably lost their jobs / entire career!)
I’ve probably had my fill of MN / the news in general for today - I’m getting to the end of my already very short tether!! Sorry for the rant!!! Off to drink eat and stick my head in a bucket until all of this is over ......

Yes complete gaslighting and abusive dynamics by the government.
Restrictions to outside space
Stopping many of us working
Changing the goalposts
Instilling fear
Heavy handed police tactics

Soon... Taking away property and possessions by crashing the economy, leaving it ripe for exploitation by global elites..to rebuild and reset.

"you will have nothing and be happy" the wet dream of the new Liberal communists.

[quote peak2021]@crazyontheweekend whilst like you I question the restrictions, especially that because they have been implemented so late they have gone on longer than could have been the case, I disagree with your view they are extreme. Look at those even now in some other countries, look at what Spain and Italy had last March, even look nearer to some of those in the Isle of Man and Jersey/Guernsey at times.

@Createsuser whilst you are not suggesting the government is abusive, the point you make is valid about the nature of their behaviour. What I think has added to this is the 'do as I say not do as I do' behaviour, exemplified by not sacking Dominic Cummings and more recently by a completely unnecessary trip to Scotland (which could have been replaced by travelling only a couple of miles to view the same activity).[/quote]
This myth again of the UK having locked down later than most countries.

This information is really easy to google and find out for yourself. Britain locked down 15 days after its first Covid death, Italy and France 14 days after and Germany 9 days after. So only 6 days later than Germany and not significantly later than Spain or France.

Oh, and heres the link if you don't believe me. There are many such tables on different sources if you want to look.

www.politico.eu/article/europes-coronavirus-lockdown-measures-compared/

@teezletangler

This is the only sane thread on this topic right now.

My mother commented the other day that people are happy to give up their rights because deep down most people are fascists. Judging by the public acceptance of how the govt is handling things, there seems to be a grain of truth in there somewhere. The really scary part is that the left in this country is currently displaying even more fascist tendencies than the right, calling for more and harder controls. There is no sane and rational opposition.

Do you even know what fascism means?

This information is really easy to google and find out for yourself. Britain locked down 15 days after its first Covid death, Italy and France 14 days after and Germany 9 days after. So only 6 days later than Germany and not significantly later than Spain or France.

The difference is, we'd already been able to see what had happened in those countries and didn't take heed

What a ridiculous thing for Matt Hancock to say, no one would get 10 years for that, so why say it.

By saying that he looses credibility rather than gaining credibility.

Is KS pro schools returning on 8 March ?

Yanbu and the passivity of people failing to question the removal of their rights is the scariest part.

It's not a removal of my right.
Why is it my right to go on holiday & come back from a red listed country in the middle of a worldwide dangerous health pandemic & not do 10 days quarantine & possibly bring a new variant of Covid causing more infections & deaths?

A complete ban on people on going abroad regardless of work, holiday, medical treatment etc with a guaranteed prison sentence in return for no valid or real reason (e.g Boris is scared of aeroplanes & holidays) now that is a removal of a right I would fight for.

Yes we are and it is unbelievable how quickly we went along with it. Any future Government now has a complete blueprint as to how to enforce totalitarian measures whilst ensuring no opposition and anyone who thinks this would only happen again in the event of another pandemic is absolutely deluding themselves. Could anyone have thought a year ago that a mother could be fined by the police for driving 7 miles to walk on a deserted beach with just her dd - this happened locally. If this isn’t a totalitarian regime how much further down the line do we want this to go ?

If you are referring to this case
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/woman-daughter-fined-walk-crosby-19821179.amp

The woman got an apology from the police & the fine reconsidered.

@user1471448866, because you can vote this government out at the next election. By definition, this literally means it is not a totalitarian regime. We have democracy. This is not something meaningless.