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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To insist on vaccinated carers

307 replies

Oblahdeeoblahdoe · 08/02/2021 18:57

One of the carers who goes into my elderly mum has refused the vaccine (she told mum) I'm really annoyed and want to request to the management that she doesn't attend to mum anymore. I feel if she wants to do this job she should have the vaccine in order to protect her clients. I know there's no proof yet it will protect against transmission on but most scientists believe it will. AIBU?

OP posts:
rawlikesushi · 08/02/2021 22:20

[quote pinkseal]@rawlikesushi - so you've heard of one author but want to completely dismiss the rest without even taking a second to check. Fgs.[/quote]
I've just googled Tatyana Obukhanych since you're so cross that I dismissed the book list.

She's another thoroughly debunked figure.

She's a Harvard-trained immunologist though, which is impressive. But then there are thousands of them, and they don't agree with her. Why would you believe her over all those thousands of others? I suspect the reason is confirmation bias.

MaxNormal · 08/02/2021 22:20

How would you even know the vaccine status of most of your mother's carers? You only know this one because the women decided to share that with you.
Or what if one of the carers was unable to have it?

Twistered · 08/02/2021 22:24

Op if your mum needs to attend the GP, or any type of clinic, or have a nurse or doctor visit her at home .... There will be no way to know if they've a vaccine or not. There may also other carers attending to your mum who are choosing not to have the vaccine. As long as they have PPE and follow all guidelines and your mum has had her vaccine I don't see the problem.

DeeCeeCherry · 08/02/2021 22:26

Why did she tell your Mum that?! Did she not think your Mum may be a bit worried/tell you? She doesn't sound very reassuring or sensitive, in the circumstances.

It's her personal medical information and she could easily have kept that to herself. Very unprofessional not to.

Torn on this, as I think it's a private and personal decision as to whether to have the Covid jab or not. I don't think anyone should demand to know whether someone has had the jab. I'm not a fan of the witch hunt tendency on internet at times.

But then again my Mum is 79 and I know in reality I wouldn't be impressed at all if a carer said that to her. So I wouldn't want that carer around her. & I definitely would have thoughts around carer working with elderly people yet not having had the jab.

YANBU but aside from that nobody can say what employers will and won't require/how far they can go on this, as we simply do not know.

milkysmum · 08/02/2021 22:35

I'm a care home manager. I definitely have several staff who are anxious about vaccine and are " waiting a bit longer..", a couple who definitely will not have it done. Same with residents, half have accepted half have said absolutely not!
Not helped by half those of that attended vaccination centre experiencing significant side effects and within days we had an outbreak of covid in the home- those that were a bit suspicious of the vaccine before, certainly are now unfortunately..

Spicedlatte · 08/02/2021 22:42

YABU she is a human being with autonomy . . she has a choice about what is injected into her body, and this is coming from someone who has had the vaccine.

notdaddycool · 08/02/2021 22:46

I believe that whilst you can't make a vaccine a condition of employment you can get round it by saying it's required for your mothers' Health and Safety. So you get the outcome you want but not the obvious way. If they lose their jobs (or more likely lose hours and realise it's going) they will get it done and be fine.

Steamedhams · 08/02/2021 22:51

@Spicedlatte

YABU she is a human being with autonomy . . she has a choice about what is injected into her body, and this is coming from someone who has had the vaccine.
Absolutely. She can also say to whomever she wants that she won't be having it.

It's like covid is the excuse some MNers have been waiting for to turn the place into the third Reich.

England101 · 08/02/2021 22:53

I can understand why you’re concerned but I don’t think employers can compel existing employees to have the vaccine but can make it compulsory for new employees by writing it into their contracts. But I think for health care assistants that would be unwise as there is already a shortage of carers, which may mean fewer care visits and service users spending longer in beds/chairs because 2 people aren’t available to transfer them. This may be an unpopular opinion but maybe when you have the vaccine perhaps you could care for your mum rather then tell people who are on minimum wage, who work long hours, work bank holidays etc, to have a medical procedure in order to care for her.

OakSnows · 08/02/2021 22:55

@PotteringAlong

You cannot make being vaccinated a condition of employment I don’t think. Have you requested information about their other vaccinations? If they refused to tell you would you refuse them on those grounds?
This is so wrong. The vaccine doesn’t stop you getting it, it just hopefully means your immune response kicks in sooner and you don’t get as ill.

@Oblahdeeoblahdoe I would absolutely tell them you don’t want in unvaccinated carer going in when there is an option. You won’t be the only one.

BiggestJulie · 08/02/2021 23:07

@JamieFrasersAuntie of course the vaccines being administered are licensed. Otherwise they couldn't be administered. The MHRA has examined the data and licensed them. If you don't want to have it, that is, of course, entirely your choice. It is also possible that you may find that certain options are closed to you by your choice. The law is yet to be tested.

Griselda1 · 08/02/2021 23:21

I listened to an interview with a nursing home ceo recently and she said that they couldn't insist that existing staff took the vaccine but wouldn't employ any new unvaccinated staff . It's a difficult one, personally I won't be telling my employer if I've had the vaccine.
My aunt is in a nursing home where they'd hoped to have 100% take up of the vaccine but it's sitting at about 60% due to young staff refusing it.
Even if this person isn't with your mother you won't know if the others have been vaccinated so I'm not sure what you'll gain.

tenbananasaday · 08/02/2021 23:22

OP, where do we draw the line? Nurses, doctors, midwives, paramedics, teachers, shop workers? Why single out carers?

Original poster
Oblahdeeoblahdoe · 08/02/2021 23:24

Thanks for all your replies and points of view.

OP posts:
HopingForOurRainbowBaby · 08/02/2021 23:27

Yet I'm assuming you've been happy enough for the last almost 12 months during Covid for this Carer plus the other Carers that came in, to look after your Mum? You wouldn't even have known had the Carer nor told you she was refusing to have it done. I'm a Carer I'm too refusing to have the vaccine. I've refused on the basis of me and my DP are TTC we've already lost Babies and prior to us meeting i suffered fertility issues. it took me 5 years with my new DP to fall Pregnant and I aren't doing anything to jeopardise it. Obviously I aren't going to go blurting it out to all and sundry when out doing my rounds. Maybe in the future I will have it done but for now no

Original poster
Oblahdeeoblahdoe · 08/02/2021 23:33

@tenbananasaday

OP, where do we draw the line? Nurses, doctors, midwives, paramedics, teachers, shop workers? Why single out carers?
Sorry, I added my last post before I saw yours. In my DM's case I'm only concerned about her carers. This is in no way singling out carers per se, as I said earlier we very much appreciate everything they do and frequently express this to them. I do hope you're not implying I've singled them out for criticism.
OP posts:
Torvean · 08/02/2021 23:34

Eventually having had Covid vaccination will be compulsory for staff. It will take time though.

PinkiOcelot · 08/02/2021 23:34

@m0therofdragons by carers shouldn’t be getting the best jobs if they’re not vaccinated, do you mean cleaning up shit on a daily basis?! Bet they’re all queuing up for that best job.

PinkiOcelot · 08/02/2021 23:36

My mam is in a care home and management are not insisting that carers have the vaccine. As it should be in my opinion.

Murmurur · 08/02/2021 23:37

@Oblahdeeoblahdoe there is a R4 programme at 9am tomorrow on the ethics of vaccinations. Might be worth a listen if your work allows.

Original poster
Oblahdeeoblahdoe · 08/02/2021 23:47

[quote Murmurur]@Oblahdeeoblahdoe there is a R4 programme at 9am tomorrow on the ethics of vaccinations. Might be worth a listen if your work allows.[/quote]
Thank you. I'll probably listen on catch up.

OP posts:
LunaHeather · 08/02/2021 23:54

@Oblahdeeoblahdoe

I have no intention of discussing on here why my DM has paid carers. All I will say is that my DM and I greatly appreciate the care she receives and frequently express this to the people concerned. I am however not pleased that this particular carer telling my DM that she refused the vaccine, in quite a dismissive manner from what my DM says. As I said earlier on, the family have made great sacrifices in order to keep Mum safe and I don't want this jeopardised by an anti-vaxer.
It's always a varying experience with carers, how easy they are to find, how well you get on

I think if you take this approach, it's important to have respect all round really. So you might be short on carers, not just because of them not having the vaccine, but they might feel it's too nosey.

It will depend on their £ situation too. I have two friends working as carers, one is quite desperate for cash and the other has alternative options. The one with alternative options would certainly stop if she had to put this info out there.

Saz12 · 09/02/2021 00:04

You can insist all you like, but if the care agency doesn’t have enough vaccinated carers you’re not going to get very far. We have a UK shortage of carers. Make the underpaid, under respected ones we do have feel they are being “forced” to vaccinate and we’ll have an even greater shortage.

I’m absolutely pro-vaccine (and have had it myself), but if a healthy early-20-something decides to wait a few months in case the risk to them from having the vaccine is higher than risk posed to them by Covid, then it’s not indicative of them being an insane rabid-antivaxx conspiracy-theorist.

If your DM has been vaccinated then the reality is that her carers pose only a tiny tiny risk to her.

ChestnutStuffing · 09/02/2021 00:04

It's not likely to ever be the case that everyone is vaccinated for this, so to some extent I think people are just going to have to get comfortable with it.

There's been a very high level of doctors who are not going to get this vaccine, at least not yet, compared to other vaccines. It's not surprising - they know that it has been pushed through quickly and while that may be justifiable, doctors in practice are aware that unexpected effects from new drugs are common. I would be very wary of insisting on vaccination of anyone under those conditions.

LunaHeather · 09/02/2021 00:11

Saz "You can insist all you like, but if the care agency doesn’t have enough vaccinated carers you’re not going to get very far"

The care agency may not want to ask either. They have to deal with so many issues from staff shortages, it's a double whammy. Reduce the number of carers going to certain jobs and lose some staff who are unhappy with the question.

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