Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To insist on vaccinated carers

307 replies

Oblahdeeoblahdoe · 08/02/2021 18:57

One of the carers who goes into my elderly mum has refused the vaccine (she told mum) I'm really annoyed and want to request to the management that she doesn't attend to mum anymore. I feel if she wants to do this job she should have the vaccine in order to protect her clients. I know there's no proof yet it will protect against transmission on but most scientists believe it will. AIBU?

OP posts:
Belladonna12 · 09/02/2021 13:39

Not sure why I quoted MichelleScarn. Sorry!

user1497207191 · 09/02/2021 13:44

NHS and care home staff aren't just being vaccinated for their own protection. If that was the case, then teachers would also have been given priority. Clearly, it is because they are in contact with vulnerable people and it is hoped vaccination will reduce their chances of infecting them.

And much needed. The figures show that care homes and hospitals are the places where most people catch covid, so everything that can be done to stop that needs to be done.

Kitkat151 · 09/02/2021 13:45

[quote lordalmighty]@Kitkat151 a lot of the younger women in my health board are wary of accepting a vaccine due to nothing being known re fertility. In fact, the information I was provided via a leaflet explicitly said you can have the vaccine & try for a baby immediately however at my appointment the nurse told me I should not try for at least 3 months so I can understand the reluctance and confusion! ( I have no intention of trying for a baby) I also think people need to remember carers and health care staff have been exposed to the virus for almost a year with no protection and now if they dare question a vaccine that they don't know much about they are being painted as selfish. Some of my colleagues have refused the vaccine and imo it is rightly, still a personal choice. It would be great if everyone accepted it, but these same carers etc have been taking all the steps they can to minimise the spread throughout. They are not suddenly more dangerous.[/quote]
Have I said somewhere that carers are suddenly more dangerous?? Have you got me mixed up with someone else??🤔
I would never judge anyone for not having the vaccine..... I like a debate same as everyone else on here.....but please show me where I have painted someone as being selfish and I will give my apologies

Belladonna12 · 09/02/2021 13:46

@Donoteatthekittens

It could be interesting trying to insist on vaccinated care assistants when there’s already a huge shortage.

www.skillsforcare.org.uk/adult-social-care-workforce-data/Workforce-intelligence/publications/national-information/The-state-of-the-adult-social-care-sector-and-workforce-in-England.aspx

“It is estimated that 7.3% of the roles in adult social care were vacant in 2019/20, equal to approximately 112,000 vacancies at any one time.”

And a turnover rate of 30%

As the data was collected before Covid, the vacancy rate may have changed.
lightand · 09/02/2021 13:58

[quote lightand]**@VinylDetective
I’m getting vaccinated for my own protection so I can safely be exposed to anyone, regardless of whether they’re carrying the virus or not. There seems to be a lack of understanding about what vaccination is actually for

I have been wondering about this.
I thought, and could be wrong, that a person chooses to have the vaccination. If they were to catch covid, it lessens their symptoms.

Off to google[/quote]
Googled. It lowers chances @VinylDetective. It is not a 100% guarantee.

VinylDetective · 09/02/2021 14:02

Googled. It lowers chances @VinylDetective. It is not a 100% guarantee

I know. That doesn’t change what I said. Vaccination is for your own protection, not to protect other people. It’s still be established whether vaccination affects transmissibility.

Belladonna12 · 09/02/2021 14:19

@VinylDetective

Googled. It lowers chances *@VinylDetective*. It is not a 100% guarantee

I know. That doesn’t change what I said. Vaccination is for your own protection, not to protect other people. It’s still be established whether vaccination affects transmissibility.

If that was true, why aren't NHS staff and care home workers prioritised over teachers for example? The Vaccine committee states:

"Frontline health and social care workers at high risk of acquiring infection, at high individual risk of developing serious disease, or at risk of transmitting infection to multiple vulnerable persons or other staff in a healthcare environment, are considered of higher priority for vaccination than those at lower risk".

Belladonna12 · 09/02/2021 14:19

aren't are

VinylDetective · 09/02/2021 14:21

If that was true, why aren't NHS staff and care home workers prioritised over teachers for example?

They are. You just posted a quote to say they are. The reason they’re prioritised is so they don’t get sick and are able to look after vulnerable people.

LaBellina · 09/02/2021 14:27

I understand why you feel that way OP but you don’t know why a carer has refused to have the vaccine and this is also none of your business.
So YANBU for feeling this way but you would BU for demanding only vaccinated carers.

londonscalling · 09/02/2021 14:31

Regardless of the legalities and ethics etc, the carer's disclosure has now made you feel uncomfortable. Your mum shouldn't have to be cared for by someone who makes you feel that way!?

Belladonna12 · 09/02/2021 14:33

@VinylDetective

If that was true, why aren't NHS staff and care home workers prioritised over teachers for example?

They are. You just posted a quote to say they are. The reason they’re prioritised is so they don’t get sick and are able to look after vulnerable people.

No, the quote doesn't say anything about making sure they don't get sick and are unable to look after vulnerable people . It says that they are prioritised to reduce the risk of transmitting the virus to vulnerable people.
m0therofdragons · 09/02/2021 14:37

@PinkiOcelot the best jobs would be those with the best employers. Caring by its nature is challenging but what makes a job is the employer. I would also argue caring is about a lot more than clearing up poo.

DWPmisery1972 · 09/02/2021 15:05

@m0therofdragons you’d be surprised how many people think our job is just wiping up piss and shit. They have no idea.

VinylDetective · 09/02/2021 16:23

@Belladonna12, the quote can say what the fuck it likes. There’s still a difference of opinion as to whether the vaccine prevents transmission. The reason people get vaccinated against any disease is to protect themselves from getting sick.

Belladonna12 · 09/02/2021 16:45

[quote VinylDetective]@Belladonna12, the quote can say what the fuck it likes. There’s still a difference of opinion as to whether the vaccine prevents transmission. The reason people get vaccinated against any disease is to protect themselves from getting sick.[/quote]
Some people also want to prevent transmission believe it or not. Not everybody only considers themselves.

rawlikesushi · 09/02/2021 16:52

[quote SheeshazAZ09]@rawlikesushi You’ve made some assumptions that are not accurate. Neither I nor friend believes that the vaccinated friend who then got covid somehow manufactured it from within her body as a result of having the vaccine. The most likely scenario is that this woman was exposed to covid via her job as teacher but got it asymptomatically so did not isolate, then became a super spreader.

Second it is naive in the extreme to believe that all side effects and adverse events will be predicted by manufacturer and thus listed as a side effect in the product info. We know that several things can go wrong here: eg side effect appears in trial but manufacturer dismissed it as unrelated to treatment as they don’t understand the mechanism; side effect is rare so doesn’t pop up in trial but only shows up when larger population gets vaccinated outside of the trial; person outside of trial who has adverse reaction has unusual health conditions or genetic makeup that was not represented in trial, etc etc. The list is long.

I myself had a serious side effect from a drug years ago that a doctor told me with absolute certainty could not be related to the drug cos it wasn’t in the list of side effects. Well fast forward a couple of decades and now that drug has been found to have that side effect.

These kinds of issues are why there is post marketing surveillance on drugs.[/quote]
Yes but if your friend's daughter has had a serious, previously unseen reaction to a covid vaccine then that's pretty big news globally.

Unless you're making it up or wildly exaggerating.

Christinayangtwistedsister · 09/02/2021 17:00

So this carer has looked after your mum through this pandemic? She was font to come in up until now ? Your mum asked her for the information, she didn't volunteer it? If none of the carers had it would you look after your own mother? Do you know her reasons for not having it ?

Nanny0gg · 09/02/2021 17:01

@PotteringAlong

You cannot make being vaccinated a condition of employment I don’t think. Have you requested information about their other vaccinations? If they refused to tell you would you refuse them on those grounds?
There seems to be rumblings, that from a H&S point of view, you can.
VinylDetective · 09/02/2021 17:04

Some people also want to prevent transmission believe it or not. Not everybody only considers themselves

For the third time - please read carefully - there is no agreement that the current vaccinations prevent transmission. Have you got it this time?

And most people do only consider themselves. Like OP’s mum who was happy to accept care from someone unvaccinated for ten months but is now throwing her toys out of her pram.

lightand · 09/02/2021 17:05

Rumblings in health circles? HR circles?

Nanny0gg · 09/02/2021 17:05

@JamieFrasersAuntie

Regardless of what a London law firm thinks nobody can be forced to have an experimental vaccine. Ever. Under any circumstances.

I am hearing more and more about this and I find it very worrying indeed. I think employers who coerce or threaten employees to have this are going to find themselves in court.

Under what definition is it 'experimental'?
Nanny0gg · 09/02/2021 17:06

@VinylDetective

Some people also want to prevent transmission believe it or not. Not everybody only considers themselves

For the third time - please read carefully - there is no agreement that the current vaccinations prevent transmission. Have you got it this time?

And most people do only consider themselves. Like OP’s mum who was happy to accept care from someone unvaccinated for ten months but is now throwing her toys out of her pram.

If enough people have the jab how will Covid transmit?
VinylDetective · 09/02/2021 17:10

Is that a serious question @Nanny0gg? Never heard of carriers? And that the vaccine isn’t 100% effective?

Nanny0gg · 09/02/2021 17:19

@VinylDetective

Is that a serious question *@Nanny0gg*? Never heard of carriers? And that the vaccine isn’t 100% effective?
Yes I have.

But the uptake is never going to be 100% so my question stands.

How many is 'enough'?