Does anyone else have an adult daughter who is draining?

[Feelingtired75]

My dd is 21..final Yr of uni. Living at home. Iam divorced for several yrs now from narc husband. Neither of us have contact with him.
Sometimes it feels as if my dd has taken over his role of my abuser. I can't say a thing to her without attitude and her telling me I need mental help iam a weirdo etc.
And I mean just me asking if her if her essay uploaded OK can get a response like that. Sometimes. It's hard to tell when.
If I enquire about her day she can either respond well or tell me she has told me several times to not ask her anything.. That I'm weird and intrusive and need help. She talks to me very slowly like iam stupid and even tells me to get out of her sight.
I feel iam wLking on eggshells and I try and not upset her but sonetimesjust in day to day conversation things she doesn't like can slip out like me asking oh how did that go then? Or similar.
Iam at the end of my tether and feeling very very low. She says I like to be a victim. But the lady thing I ever wanted was this..

The way I see it, OP can view her daughter as an abuser just like her father, kick her our and probably end up with no contact.

Or, she can try and get them both some help and accept that allowing her husband to remain in the home as an abusive presence has damaged her child who had no choice but to be there and experience it. This kind of extreme behaviour doesn’t just happen, the formative years of childhood have a fundamental effect on who they become as adults and correcting that can take years. I would be willing to bet OP’s daughter is angry with her mother for allowing her to be exposed to an abusive atmosphere when she was a child and her behaviour is an expression of that.

If I were you op rather than throwing your daughter out, I would seek some professional advice. That way you at least will have a chance of a normal relationship.

@CandyLeBonBon

Mn makes me laugh. The other day there was a thread where the op was upset because her dp's 27 year old daughter was being rude to her and blanking her etc and everyone on there was like 'oh the poor dd yes she's 27 but she's come from an abusive home, it's not her fault, she probably is suffering from the abuse, you shouldn't expect too much from her' etc etc.

Now we've got a 21 year old who's being rude to get mum and the MN collective can't Chuck her out fast enough! There's no consistency on here at all

Were they all the same posters because if they are you have a point if not, it's just a bunch of different people with different opinions?

Are exactly the same posters responding, Candy? How can you expect consistency if not?

cross post! Some consistency there at least.

I left my narc ex when my DD was 4, but the damage was done - she'd spent her formative years learning that the way daddy treats mommy is the way mommy is supposed to be treated.

Sorry but this is bonkers, she treats you like this because YOU allow it. I was in exactly in the same position, my 4 year old only treated me like his father ONCE, I dealt with the issue immediately, HE DOESN’t treat me badly because he knows I will not put up with it. You have the power to stop it.

She sounds like my daughter unfortunately. sending love and blessing to you xx p.s I know its soul destroying.

@MaudTheInvincible

cross post! Some consistency there at least.

:p Great minds

[quote NotSorry]@Twillow

Yes I have experience of abuse - don’t presume to know me

And don’t shout at me[/quote]
Not presuming to know you but it didn't sound like you had a clue about dealing with damaged people. If by 'getting tough' you mean setting boundaries with sensitivity and undestanding by all means accept my apologies. What you said triggered me I'm afraid.

@Feelingtired75

I do feel that it would be better for both of you,
if your daughter found a suitable alternative place to live in the long term.
I think she would value appreciate you better,with the space between especially with Lockdowns, been so full on intense, claustrophobic etc.

Also is your daughter struggling with her uni studies and taking it out on you,
I wonder if she needs more emotional/practical support with her course, find out and encourage her to seek help.
Tell her its not a weakness to seek help this way.
(she needs to find out what extra help provisions are available out there at uni for herself
Or even have pay for extra help with online tutor in her chosen subject she is struggling at if you can afford this?
(could your granparents contribute financially some way to this at all?

I do think your daughter should be encouraged to find a job too,obviously its not a good time to do job hunting.
But there is still some jobs out there she can do.
Yea she is old to stand on her two feet.
Obviously with plenty of emotional support from you.

Best of Luck op xx

Oh good totally.

I have a 20yo still living at home, uni student. She can be so nasty at times, calls me a fucking cunt, etc. She likes to be the victim.

She was screaming at me and dh the other day that we’re abusive. When pushed to give an example dredged up something I said to her when she was 14yo. I admit I lost my shit with her during that incident (verbally) but that was all she could do. She totally sees herself as the victim when she has no need to the extent I’m concerned she has some form of personality disorder. My mum was a total narc and twisted stuff but believed her version of the truth and I can see the same in Dd.

She is so lucky and just can’t see it. I do so much for her and she is just so unappreciative and treats me like crap. Then has days of being nice and fun to be with before flipping again.

She was crying the other day while calling us abusive, saying we make her want to kill herself. So dh turned round and said if things are that bad move out. Which didn’t help and I was a bit cross with him....i don’t think if your Dd is saying they’re suicidal you should say that but I see his point. She was given the option of moving into halls even though she’s at the local uni and we’d have paid but she said she wanted to stay at home. She still says she wants to stay at home (when she’s calm)

But then days later is screaming that when she leaves home she’s not keeping in touch with us. And sadly I can see that happening, she’s very cold. I just feel I was abused by my mum for years and now I’m being abused by my Dd.

I’m hoping things improve after lockdown. She does have depression and ptsd and we’ve paid for private counselling which helped a bit.

I’m sorry you’re going through the same, I don’t really have any advice.

@CandyLeBonBon

Mn makes me laugh. The other day there was a thread where the op was upset because her dp's 27 year old daughter was being rude to her and blanking her etc and everyone on there was like 'oh the poor dd yes she's 27 but she's come from an abusive home, it's not her fault, she probably is suffering from the abuse, you shouldn't expect too much from her' etc etc.

Now we've got a 21 year old who's being rude to get mum and the MN collective can't Chuck her out fast enough! There's no consistency on here at all

Ah but you see the poster the other day was a stepmother so automatically suspect! Today's poster is a mother therefore deified! (Which is not to say that I don't agree with all of those who say no way should the mum be putting up with this)

She sounds very immature, my eldest acted a bit like this at 14-15. He’s grown out of it now. Tell her it’s time for her to move out.

Sounds like she needs to leave and learn when she's on to a good thing.

She's an adult who has no respect for her mother in her own house. I would kick her out, maybe suggest she moves in with her dad.

@Covidcorvid

Oh good totally.

I have a 20yo still living at home, uni student. She can be so nasty at times, calls me a fucking cunt, etc. She likes to be the victim.

She was screaming at me and dh the other day that we’re abusive. When pushed to give an example dredged up something I said to her when she was 14yo. I admit I lost my shit with her during that incident (verbally) but that was all she could do. She totally sees herself as the victim when she has no need to the extent I’m concerned she has some form of personality disorder. My mum was a total narc and twisted stuff but believed her version of the truth and I can see the same in Dd.

She is so lucky and just can’t see it. I do so much for her and she is just so unappreciative and treats me like crap. Then has days of being nice and fun to be with before flipping again.

She was crying the other day while calling us abusive, saying we make her want to kill herself. So dh turned round and said if things are that bad move out. Which didn’t help and I was a bit cross with him....i don’t think if your Dd is saying they’re suicidal you should say that but I see his point. She was given the option of moving into halls even though she’s at the local uni and we’d have paid but she said she wanted to stay at home. She still says she wants to stay at home (when she’s calm)

But then days later is screaming that when she leaves home she’s not keeping in touch with us. And sadly I can see that happening, she’s very cold. I just feel I was abused by my mum for years and now I’m being abused by my Dd.

I’m hoping things improve after lockdown. She does have depression and ptsd and we’ve paid for private counselling which helped a bit.

I’m sorry you’re going through the same, I don’t really have any advice.

This is appalling and for what i's worth, I think your husband was right and she should move out. As for her not keeping in touch with you, well that will be her choice and if the 'price' of her staying in your life is abuse and continual drama, it's not one I'd feel worth paying, particularly if there are siblings who have to witness this too

@Dentistlakes, no one understands the root cause of personality disorders and genetics may yet prove to play a part. It would explain why some children from toxic families grow up with healthier emotions. They do know that some individuals show different patterns in the area thought to be responsible for empathy, but is that causes in early childhood or before birth.

Op, how does she behave towards you with others around? Has she always been like this or is there a change in behaviour? Does her brother ever witness the behaviour?

I strongly recommend you mirror her behaviour. Mirroring is a technique which shows bullies what it's like to be on the receiving end of their scorn. They often aren't aware how ugly they sound.

If she speaks to you very slowly as if you are an idiot, reply equally slowly, mimicking her tone. Either make eye contact and say exactly what she said to you in the tone she said it, using her name, so she knows you are saying it to her, then say: That is how you look and sound, when you talk to me in that way. Pathetic, isn't it? Any idea why you aged 21 are displaying the emotional behaviour of a seven year old bully?

Or just reply to her mimicking her voice: 'No...I...am...neither...weird...nor...do...I ...need...mental...help. But...your...very...slow...bitchy...putdowns...really...do...sound...like...this....Are...you...aware...of....this?...Are...you...aware...how...hideous...you...sound...when...you...try...to...belittle...me....like...this?

Then say in a normal, brisk voice: You are an adult. You know how to behave well towards others. You are choosing to bully me. Most bullies are really tragic insecure people who can only feel good when they abuse someone else. Any idea why you are abusing me? I'm prepared to discuss it with you but I'm not prepared to tolerate it any longer.

The trick is to have her own the receiving end of her own behaviour and to show with absolute conviction that you won't tolerate it any more.

I'm weird and intrusive and need help

If you were that weird and intrusive then why is she still living with you.

Set some boundaries. If you have that many things wrong with you then she will understand you need to help yourself and the first thing you need to do is have a calmer house so she needs to find somewhere else to live.

If I can raise a baby at 21 then she is emotionally mature enough to realise that her behaviour is wrong.

Not everyone is the same. Not everyone has the same inner resources. People respond to trauma differently, which is what growing up watching an abusive dynamic between parents is.

It is ABSOLUTELY NOT OK that this daughter is behaving abusively towards her mother. At the same time, trauma is essentially at the root of a hell of a lot of mental health problems. It is the product of trauma and I'd probably loosely term it as a dysfunctional attachment.

The OP has casually referred to the ex husband as a 'narc'. Narcissistic personality disorder is a serious mental health problem. Some people do like to argue that PDs are somehow 'different' to the mental illness they see as valid and deserving of their sympathy, but bluntly that's nonsense. PDs are treated under mental health teams because they are mental illnesses.

So if the daughter has a history of serious mental illness in her family, and also grew up in an environment where she watched her dad abuse her mother - it's reasonable to say she is likely mentally ill, and her emotional maturity will not be comparable to an emotionally healthy 21 year old at all.

This is one face of mental health that a lot of people are unwilling to deal with - that mental health problems can result in deeply undesirable behaviour. The OP's daughter needs professional support and treatment.

It's not palatable in our current climate of pretending that #raisingawareness and #selfcare are enough, and everything will be rosy.

@Dentistlakes

The way I see it, OP can view her daughter as an abuser just like her father, kick her our and probably end up with no contact.

Or, she can try and get them both some help and accept that allowing her husband to remain in the home as an abusive presence has damaged her child who had no choice but to be there and experience it. This kind of extreme behaviour doesn’t just happen, the formative years of childhood have a fundamental effect on who they become as adults and correcting that can take years. I would be willing to bet OP’s daughter is angry with her mother for allowing her to be exposed to an abusive atmosphere when she was a child and her behaviour is an expression of that.

If I were you op rather than throwing your daughter out, I would seek some professional advice. That way you at least will have a chance of a normal relationship.

Absolutely this.

You both sound like you need a lot more love and sympathy and I don’t think you can give it to each other.

I hear alarm bells at the golden son who is calm and lovely and the daughter who isn’t. It’s a bit of a cliche in these situations. Pls get therapy for you and ideally also for your daughter to help navigate all this.

OP, I'm sorry if you've already said this but how old was DD when you separated from your Ex?

It's all very well a PP saying cut her some slack, but how much? If you find yourself walking on eggshells constantly, it sounds like you're trying your best not the rock the boat as it is but you absolutely cannot be expected to be treated like shit by your adult daughter. She's 21, she IS an adult and she needs to start behaving like one.

You'll find it hard I'm sure but you need to find the strength to put some bullet-proof boundaries in place or she needs to find somewhere else to live. This should not be your life.

no one understands the root cause of personality disorders and genetics may yet prove to play a part

"Genetics load the gun, environment pulls the trigger"

Get family therapy. But...

also, instead of talking about how she makes you feel ask her how she feels.

And find a way of breaking the cycle of negative behaviour by just doing something together that you both enjoy. Do you/ can you go on a walk together? Cook and eat a nice meal? A take away?

Just reframe.

You could even be really honest and say, 'Look I know things haven't been great lately, how about we do x or y. Which one do you fancy? Why don't we just try and have a nice time together for an hour or two'.
I think, doing that. Something different, without any baggage might help you to relate to each other differently.

My DD is much younger but I’m v close to my sister and nephew who is the same age and situation as your DD. NO WAY does he behave like that nor would it be tolerated if he even tried.

Everyone has their moments and I’m sure living at home during COVID and being in third year is stressful - guess what, that’s training for life and it doesn’t get any easier. At age 20 that is totally disrespectful to you. I’d be very concerned about her ability to communicate and effectively teamwork in the real world when she gets a job - or if it’s just directed at you that’s almost worse.

Sorry OP. I think you need to do some reading how to handle and then kick that right back into touch. Hope it improves.

@Feelingtired75

I have tried telling her how it makes me feel but she just accuses me of playing the victim and how I need to get a grip and am I going through the menopause. I always speak very calmly to her but if later on she calls one of our relatives to complain about me she will tell them I shouted and screamed and slammed doors and stormed out. None of this ever ever happens. But I don't think she thinks she is lying?? She accuses me of gas lighting her? If I say none of that happened.

I think it's time she found somewhere else to live.