We're not kind on here

[Empathy2021]

Name changed.

I've sometimes read an AIBU and left a snidey or sarky comment. It's made me chuckle in the moment. It's just a fleeting remark and then I've gone off and got on with my day.

But to be on the receiving end of that comment must really hurt. I'm sure this has been said a thousand times on here, but MN can be really toxic.

I know we all have a choice. Stay or go. Scroll past. Blah, blah, blah. But it's a shame if it has to come to that.

All too often I see OPs told to "get a grip", or they're "overreacting", or "welcome to the real world" or they're "loons" or whatever. It's not very helpful. And then the OP either disappears or goes on the defensive, which isn't healthy either.

If we were more careful with our wording or tried to show more empathy, the OP would be able to solve their problem that bit quicker.

It's upsetting that most of us are women on here (I assume) and we take such pleasure in bringing each other down. The world is already massively fucked up at the moment. People come on here either because they have a genuine problem (and I've seen some amazing responses on MN where women have really helped each other out) or for a bit of a moan. And we read it for entertainment or light relief. And then we take the piss or tear them to shreds. It's not right.

I'll probably get twatted now for even bringing it up. It's not an original thread. It's been done a gazillion times. But, it can't hurt to think about it once in a while.

I'm going to make a concerted effort to be a bit kinder on here. It seems empathy really is a precious commodity on MN sometimes.

AIBU is an opinion forum not a support board. There are other boards where the tone is kinder.

Honestly? Kindness does not always help people. Sometimes people are being unreasonable or even bloody stupid, and shying away from telling them that is not kind. I find the snidey/snarky comments tend to come in where:
a) an OP is doggedly not accepting good advice from a multitude of posters
b) an OP has presented something with missing details to try and get agreement with their view but their other posts give the rest of the story - people feel duped
c) an OP drip feeds things in that hugely change the position
d) an OP returns to AIBU repeatedly over months/years with an ever worsening saga and just repeatedly ignores any advice given
e) an OP is petulant/immature/selfish to the point of comedy
f) an OP comes in just looking for a fucking bunfight with a done to death controversial topic (eg breast vs bottle, homeschooling, sahm vs wohm)

But I do think AIBU is well known for its brutality, and people that are vulnerable should stay off it.
I'm a very small person- I wouldn't go into boxing as a hobby, and then complain I can't land any punches!

Good post @NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Some people post, and you can see in their OP that they are a victim in life; they have a victim mentality. I close those ones, because I'm not going to give snark to people like that.

@MechantGourmet

It's always women and girls that have to be kind and play nicely, and share, isn't it?

I think this is a cop-out though: the trope about women and girls having to play nicely is aimed at undermining the power dynamic set up by men to prevent women expressing themselves.

I wholeheartedly believe women and girls shouldn't have to be kind and play nicely in order to appears men.

But what we're talking about here isn't men putting women down, its women putting women down. Fundamentally a different power balance scenario and we should acknowledge this.

Also the other thing that's always trotted out is that everyone should know AIBU is brutal and stay away if they are feeling vulnerable. I've learned this the hard way but if you're new to the site its not always evident.

I'm not saying AIBU needs to be all about hearts and flowers but I don't think its good enough just to fall back on this idea that being kind is anti-feminist. Sometimes people need to hear straightforward commentary which is not "kind". But that doesn't mean its ok to bully.

Taking a bit of responsibility to not be an utter cunt to people isn't the same thing as censoring yourself.

appease mean

appease men. FFS

Women absolutely do not have to be kind. No thank you.

Go tell men to be kind. I'm not interested.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland on the contrary when someone has given me 'toughlove,' both online and irl, the point has been lost on me when all I've heard is the shouting and confrontation . I just wind up feeling more hopeless and anxious. If someone offers advice in a kind, calm, measured way, it's far easier to 'hear' and put your trust in that person as someone there to help you

[quote Fatandfifty49]@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland on the contrary when someone has given me 'toughlove,' both online and irl, the point has been lost on me when all I've heard is the shouting and confrontation . I just wind up feeling more hopeless and anxious. If someone offers advice in a kind, calm, measured way, it's far easier to 'hear' and put your trust in that person as someone there to help you[/quote]
Then you post in that way - it's what I mean by the solution being at your fingertips. Perhaps it will be more welcome, but perhaps it won't be.

But never confuse what you think is right with objective truth.

And perhaps realise that no matter the size of the recent outbreak of threads on this, MN is very much a site where women do not have to be people pleasers

Fatandfifty49

AIBU is not there for advice and support. It is "am I being unreasonable".

Maybe the answer is for MNHQ to add a warning to posters as to the nature of AIBU to redirect people to the many many other talk boards if they want things like relationship support, financial advice etc.

I agree with you.

I am shocked how much toxic shit posters here get dumped on them, especially when it comes to relationship issues. I see so many posts of shitty partners who are either lazy and outright disrespectful to their wives/girlfriends and many of the posts will contain something like:
"Well, you are to blame for his behavior. Ofcourse he is acting like that if you don't [insert x, y or z]. It's hard for everyone and you just need to be more understanding, etc."
While I don't see that same condemnation for the behavior of the men who caused the post in the first place.

We need to support each other more especially when it comes to our dealings with men, because there are way too many men out there making the lives of their female partners needlessly hard.

I like the robust discussion, of course there is no need to be rude but sometimes people are allowing themselves to keep getting into the same situation and maybe need a bit of "tough talk".

Some people are incredibly over sensitive and take offence at any opinion which is different to their own.

Honestly I would support having a blanket rule that you have to have posted at least 20 times on other boards before you can start an OP on AIBU.

YANBU.

It's ironic that some of the nastier posters on here also throw their toys if their child experiences similar nastiness at school or online, but don't quite understand the irony...

STOP FUCKING TELLING WOMEN TO BE KIND!!

Oh and the snarkiness isn't limited to women. Plenty of men post on here and if anything tend to get more of a roasting than the women.

The thing is @thepeopleversuswork 50% of AIBUs would be resolved with the OP just getting a grip. And many posters when not pandered to immediately claim 'bullying', so much so that the word bullying has been completely hijacked by the "It's not fair, I can't possibly be in the wrong; you're all being meeeeean" crowd. Genuine bullying isn't given the recognition and support it requires any more.

I think it's fairly easy not to be cuntish, and I doubt others are disimilar to me. In 15 years on MN, I can still count my deleted posts on two hands (and most weren't for being nasty, just for calling out trolls!). I have requested one post withdrawal where I thought afterwards that I'd gone too far.

As for people not knowing AIBU is a bearpit, there used to be a huge notice at the top warning that it wasn't fluffy-wuffy land (I paraphrase).

In the days before AIBU, the site was smaller, and much more a genuine community, and people were not hugely unkind to others when they knew they'd be recognised and called out on it. Hence the namechanging and 'Interesting first post' comments.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Oh and the snarkiness isn't limited to women. Plenty of men post on here and if anything tend to get more of a roasting than the women.

Some of the men on here are pretty snarky themselves TBF.

I disagree. MN is not the place to come to get your ego massaged but it is the place to come if you need honest opinions. It is also a fantastic place for support. If you post in the right section. There are many forums for specific things. MN you can get support for pretty much anything. Your mum is in ICU at 3am? Someone will be awake and offer a virtual handhold. You’ve found your spouse has cheated. Someone will be on to tell you exactly what steps you need to take. You’re in an abusive relationship, someone will post links to how you get help, someone will ask if you’re safe. Facing maternity discrimination, someone will post about their situation and links to help. I can’t think of any other internet spaces that will offer all that and more.

However, with the good and that wealth of knowledge, you don’t get sugar coated responses. There is always the odd poster who says something to be antagonistic but in general, if MN says YABU then you are. It might be hard to hear but that’s a different matter.

You’ve admitted to posting nasty comments before but now you’ve had it turned on you, and you’re all for kindness. It shouldn’t take getting a piece of your own medicine to change your behaviour. I generally follow the rule of not posting to be funny or get people quoting me, saying ‘this’. I post what I think the OP should hear but I’m not going to sugar coat anything, it may come across as blunt but that wouldn’t be my intention.

Ragwort spot on.

People come on asking for opinions and can't handle them. I know I can't handle booze so I don't go and ask for a magnum of champagne with a straw, I ask for a cup of tea.

This is a bit like going out into the street and shouting 'BE NICE TO EACH OTHER!!'

You're talking to a random cross section of people. Some will be nice, some won't. Those who are particularly horrid can be reported to the authorities.

We all need to be able to deal with humans being humans, and dealing with the unpleasant ones in the appropriate way. The horrid people are unlikely to listen to any pleas for decency anyway - they don't want people to feel they're nice, or they don't care. That's what causes them to be horrid in the first place.

Also people are actually quite quick to alert MNHQ when someone clearly vulnerable is getting a roasting they don't need, those threads get taken down fast.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Honestly I would support having a blanket rule that you have to have posted at least 20 times on other boards before you can start an OP on AIBU.

This is actually a good idea, but it should be more than 20 posts!