Is this normal for a step family?

[Dundee67890]

I have a situation at home that has gone on for so long I’m not even sure if it’s normal or not?

DSD is 17. I’ve been with her dad for 10 years and we’re married. She comes to our house every other weekend Fri to Monday. I wasn’t the reason her parents split but her mum hated me from the start and made my relationship with her daughter difficult from a young age.

When DSD is with us she rarely speaks to me. She’ll answer if I ask her something, but will never take the conversation further. She whispers with her dad regularly and she’ll stop talking if I walk into a room. Like most teens she spends most of the time in her room (even pre COVID). She has been with us since Friday and he literally spent the whole time in bed except for coming out when called for dinner. She’s taken drinks and breakfast back to bed.

She doesn’t wash or shower and her room is an awful mess when she leaves, used sanitary towels left lying around, dirty bed sheets - I don’t go in to her room when she’s here as it’s her private space but from a quick glance as I walk past (door ajar) it is a tip.

I don’t live like this. I work in a hospital and regularly work 50+ hours a week. My weekends are pretty special to my recovery from work and MH but I find the weekends she’s with us are stressful due to the difficult atmosphere.

I’ve tried talking to her dad but he is immediately defensive and starts shouting at me. He refuses to talk about it as he says she’s doing nothing wrong. I’ve tried writing to him but he just ignores me.

I’m not trying to stop her coming, but is there any advice on what I can do to make it better for myself? Is it normal or AIBU?

[quote Dundee67890]@SleepOhHowIMissYou I appreciate your different viewpoint and would be interested in what you say but your comments that I’ve written to my husband telling him what a bitch his daughter is have really cancelled out any sensibilities in your argument and shown your true colours. I did write to him, I asked him how we could resolve the problems, what his feelings were on it and asked him to open up to me. Not once did I bad mouth her!! It is your tunnel vision that I am at totally at fault that lead to that comment, and voided any argument you have in my mind.[/quote]
Shame because my advice is constructive. Still you've got plenty on here who agree it's all your husband and his evil daughter's fault and you have no part to play other than being 100% the victim.

Why not show him the thread and then he'll see for himself how wrong he is and beg your forgiveness? Go on.

Oh, and you ARE the outsider in their relationship. He is her Dad. She is his daughter. To her, you're his wife, that's all.
If you were to split up, would you pursue an independent relationship with this girl? Would she be keen to keep in touch with you? You know the answer to this.

[quote aSofaNearYou]@SleepOhHowIMissYou There's a certain air of victim blaming around saying OPs actions have "caused shouting", and she has a good relationship with her husband. He shouts at her. For bringing this up in a calm and open manner. Her actions cannot be reasonably described as "causing" that. His behaviour is wrong.

Why are you so determined to focus on what OP might be doing wrong rather than accepting what the others involved are actually evidently doing wrong.[/quote]
Yes, that's what loving husbands in strong relationships do, they shout when the person they love makes a point in a calm and open manner. Or does that sound a little implausible? Hmm?

I have no idea what step-mum bingo is, but regardless I hope you find a way through this

To be honest I couldn't be with a man who didn't respect me enough not to realise this is a problem, and attempt to do something about it. By not dealing with it, he's saying your feelings are not as important as hers, and I couldn't live like that.

Yes, that's what loving husbands in strong relationships do, they shout when the person they love makes a point in a calm and open manner. Or does that sound a little implausible? Hmm?

It doesn't sound implausible, it sounds quite plausible sadly, in someone that is lacking in the "loving husband" department and borders more on emotionally abusive.

Why do you assume you are being the most useful by assuming OP is lying in her account? Surely if she is lying, the whole thread is bogus anyway. You can only be of use by believing what OP says happened.

Give space. In your own house. Jesus wept.
In no other situation do household members need to ‘give space.’ If you want space, please go to your private space and take your conversations there. I’ll sit my ass where I want, when I want. In the common areas of my own home. That I pay for.

Shocker. But true

There’s a card in that.

Your house is your house. Until your step child is there. Make sure you give them space.

@aSofaNearYou because an echo chamber helps no-one. What other constructive advice has OP been given? She doesn't want to break her marriage up. Still, if she's been truly honest then, as I've suggested, all she has to do is show him this thread so he can see the error of his ways and choose her over his daughter.

Sorted!

OP, dont dare tidy up her room. She is leaving it like that as she KNOWS you will pick up after and she is likely enjoying inconveniancing you and seeing you as below her when you tidy up her filth it's a power thing. You really need to leave it. The sanitary towels is absolutely disgusting but she needs to learn you arent her dogs body. She wont have any respect for you if you continue to let her treat you like this.

I have a 16 year old and she use to be messy like you are describing until she was about 14. I stopped tidying up after her and now she keeps her room spotless. Your dsd needs to learn to pick up after herself. Also find it weird a 17 year old not showering once in three days. She sounds pretty immature.

@sassbott

There’s a card in that.

Your house is your house. Until your step child is there. Make sure you give them space.

So what's your constructive advice then?

To the people saying "it's your home" I would just say that it is also the child's home and she also deserves to feel comfortable in her home. And people saying they wouldn't allow her back - what kind of parent would throw their child out in this situation??

I think you could become very angry through your interpretations of the behaviour. You could think, she is doing this in MY home, to annoy ME. Then you will feel indignant and cross.

Or you could interpret it that SHE is struggling with basic hygiene in HER OWN personal space and needs some kind of support. (from her father btw.)

Likewise the whispering. Is she doing it deliberately to be rude ?

Or is she struggling to act normally because she feels anxious, uncomfortable?

It must be pretty difficult to have to live with someone who is not your parent and doesn't have that automatic love and empathy for you. For me, home was always a place where I could be totally myself, an anchor in the storm of the teenage years. And mental health problems can arise at any age. Just because she was fine at some point in the last 10 years doesn't mean she is fine now.

I think if you reframe things OP it might take some of your anger away and make it easier for you to cope with emotionally. She's clearly a very unhappy girl and her father is the one who should be supporting her. However, if you could reduce your own anger, there might be a lessening of tension generally, and the whispering issue might improve.

Who changes their Sanpro in their room?;

I have 2 teen girls and they've never changed their sanpro in their room;always in the bathroom where they can use the bin next to the loo and where there's access for hand washing afterwards.

At 17 I couldn't have gone a whole weekend without showering especially when menstruating.

Her personal hygiene is disgusting.

She strikes me as being quite immature tbh.

Her behaviour in general seems oriented towards causing hostility between you and your husband.

I've a feeling she would prefer it if her dad was alone and unhappy than happily married to a woman that loves him.

My concern with your DSD is what happens when she's 18?,you say she's not interested in uni;is she actually going to be interested in getting a job?

@SleepOhHowIMissYou

Well, I think an echo chamber can be useful sometimes, actually. Sometimes it can help someone that has normalised the behaviour towards them realise that they deserve better, as in the case of OP and her husband. I don't think trying to convince her to blame herself for him shouting at her at totally unreasonable times is helpful.

And "choose her over his daughter"? Try "address his daughter's behaviour and care about the affect it has on her", nobody needs to be chosen above the other, that is the bias and stepmum bingo talking.

@SleepOhHowIMissYou
Your projection is seriously high. Twisting whatever you can to try and make a pretty non valid point?
Telling op to give them space? That is her home, she can be wherever she wants to be in her own home, I can't see anywhere where she could possibly give them more space! She has actively said DH & DSD spend all their time together.
The only thing you've said along with pretty much everyone on this thread is that she shouldn't clean the room. Apart from that your comments are so far off the mark, and actually quite rude.

@purpleboy @aSofaNearYou I don't deny where my perspective comes from. I've been quite open about it.

However, with the law of probability, rarely is someone 100% right and the other two people in a trio100% wrong.

Enough people saying here that the daughter's behaviour is not normal but then are quick to jump to her actions being deliberate and Machiavellian rather than symptoms of mental illness which in a global pandemic would make more sense.

My lone differing voice was quickly shot down by the OP as "Step Mum Bingo" but for this to be true more than a very small handful of posters need to be on the same wavelength as me and I would encourage you to read the thread to clarify this.

As for bullying and rudeness, well, look at what happens if you dare to disagree with the group think on here. As we tunnel further and further into our social media echo chambers, empathy and critical thinking fall by the wayside. Eventually I believe empathetic behaviour will be lost to us completely. Such a shame.

What would I do? If this was my home and my child/ step child?

1. I would firstly (tbh) think that all was not well and that the child had some form emotional/ mental issue. Or simply did not like me. I would discuss it in private with my exh (if it was my child) or with my p (the child’s father). Make it clear that this was not healthy and something needed to be done to tackle it. I don’t care what is happening in your life, it is not acceptable to use dirty sanitary products for someone else to clear up.
2. I would work with aforementioned co-parent etc to establish boundaries and help the child to get support. If they were resistant/ continued In this manner, I wouldn’t let up.
3. If my own child behaved in this way and could not/ would not be respectful, and/ or actively refused any form of counselling (and refuse to help themselves). I would then engage with a counsellor and figure out options of what is the ‘kind’ thing to do without fundamentally enabling intensely disrespectful behaviour. Because I personally would not allow it. I would move heaven and earth to tackle it because my home is just that. My home. And something as revolting as this is not something I would be prepared to tolerate (or be told be more understanding).

There was a thread a while back about how SC (boys) were constantly leaving the bathroom in a disgusting state (urine on floor / seat etc). And the father was allowing it to happen and the SM was constantly cleaning it up.

I too had an example with my exp of his children leaving my toilet in a disgusting state (faeces smeared on the seat/ bowl etc). I saw it, went straight to my partner and told him no uncertain terms that I did not expect toilets to be left in that state. And that he needed to gently pull said child to one side and explain that they cannot leave toilets in such a way, accidents happen. But to come and get an adult to help clear it up. It’s what I would have done with my own children at that age.

What did he do? Acted completely affronted. Cleaned the child’s mess up. What does the child learn? Nothing. I can leave a toilet like that and someone will clear up after me.
Piss poor parenting and nothing to do with how displaced this child may feel. You may feel displaced, I have empathy. But one does not justify the other.

@SleepOhHowIMissYou

No love. I’m just reading the ops posts and not piling on a load of projection.

My own ds has needed training in the way he leaves the bathroom, and how he tidied up his room

That’s normal, that was in his young teens.

My oh (not ds dad) would call his attention when he’d find it and tell him to go and clean it to an acceptable standard.

As would I if I were the one to find it.

He’s 15 now and knows how to leave the bathroom and tidies his room. It’s not perfect, but the thought and intention is there, the respect is there.

This thread is about someone much older than my ds, who knows what to do, but does the opposite
And whispers, and blanks, and leaves rooms of op enters.

That’s different and it’s clear.

I have no doubt there are some awful step parent situations, my oh last ex was a case in point. Evil.

This isn’t the case here. It’s really wrong to try to warp the @Dundee67890 posts to try to manufacture an evil step mum, when there isn’t any evidence of that.

@SleepOhHowIMissYou

Are you new to MN? You seem to be severely lacking in context about the typical responses on here. This thread may have been fairly positive towards OP (probably because it is so hard to argue that she is in the wrong in this case) but that is rare on this site. MN is notoriously unempathetic towards SP and extremely empathetic towards the plight of the SC.

I agree with what you're saying about online echo chambers leading to a decline in critical thinking and empathy, but really, what you're doing is taking the tiny bit of support SP have managed to pull out of this site, and saying it should be handed back to the people that have always received the lion's share of the empathy. Believe me, you are NOT the sole voice speaking up for the poor SC on here. Any step parent will have heard it all before and then some, it's usually all we hear, whilst being told how awful we must have been to them.

@MzHz now who's try to warp and project? Show me one post where I have tried to portray the OP as an "evil step-mum ".

I have said it takes more than one person to create a bad atmosphere (so not just the daughter that OP dreads coming, wishes she wouldn't and has tried to discuss with her husband who thinks his daughter is right) and that the probability that one person is wholly 100% right and the other two are 100% wrong is very slim.

In fact, I've offered constructive advice based on what the OP says she wants (not just LTB).

I'm sorry I don't think the same thing as you and am questioning symptoms of mental health in teenagers and uncomfortable home dynamics. My alternative viewpoint seems to have really offended you, perhaps your own experience as a step-mum colours your viewpoint and your own projection? Have you considered this?

@aSofaNearYou no, not new to Mumsnet, just hate the acronyms so don't use them.

Do you think it's likely that the OP is 100% right then?

Do you think the daughter and husband may have a different viewpoint on who creates the bad atmosphere in their home?

@SleepOhHowIMissYou Ok, I didn't say anything about acronyms, so thanks for not addressing anything I said.

You are very fixated with somebody being 100% right or wrong.

OP said early on that she made a lot of effort with her step daughter, taking her out on days out etc, and was always met with this same attitude from her step daughter. So no, it doesn't sound likely that OP started the bad atmosphere, and if she is contributing to it at this point she may take a small portion of the blame, but it would be pretty understandable given how much patience she has had to show.

If the bad atmosphere IS coming from OP, the absolute last thing her husband should be doing is shutting down conversation, shouting, and ignoring even desperate pleas for communication like letters. He should be jumping at the chance to air it out with her.

Whatever way you try and spin it, you will not find an angle from which her husband's behaviour is anything other than wildly inappropriate, unless there is something we don't know yet.

OP may have personality flaws that are not clear on this thread but none of them would justify the behaviour on the other side. That is why I'm not falling over myself to find ways to blame her.

I have said it takes more than one person to create a bad atmosphere (so not just the daughter that OP dreads coming, wishes she wouldn't and has tried to discuss with her husband who thinks his daughter is right) and that the probability that one person is wholly 100% right and the other two are 100% wrong is very slim.

In my experience, it doesn't take more than one person to create a bad atmosphere, at all.

This is a man who cannot talk about the issue without shouting, so the evidence that he is biased when it comes to his daughter is pretty high, I would not be condemning OP based on his opinion.

@aSofaNearYou I mentioned the acronyms as that's the only reason you may think I was new on here. I disagree with the point you made about "how step-mum threads usually go" and don't think it's relevant frankly.

Anyway, I'm at work right now and can easily cope with having someone not sharing my opinion, so I will bid you goodbye.

@SleepOhHowIMissYou

No, I said you seemed new here because you genuinely seem to see yourself as the "lone voice" supporting step children, when really you're just saying what step parents get unfairly shouted down with on here constantly 🙄