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Original poster

to think that Jackie Weaver is a hero to feminism?

591 replies

PyongyangKipperbang · 06/02/2021 22:28

Because I refuse to believe that those appalling men would have spoken to another man the way they attempted to shout her down. She handled herself so beautifully.

Frankly I think she deserves to be Dame Jackie Weaver for services to common sense!

OP posts:
PotholeParadies · 08/02/2021 00:33

I watched it a couple of times.

Brian Tolver was trying to hold up the meeting from even being opened until he'd got the rest of them to promise that he wouldn't be ejected from it. So he basically wanted a licence to behave as poorly as he liked. He was going to go on and on and on about his grievances until Jackie and the others conceded. Wanted to play on their adherence to social norms while not abiding by them himself.

Not how it should work. If you don't want to be asked to leave meetings, just behave professionally.

That is a man who has spent his life acting like that, and he wasn't going to suddenly change if Jackie magically spoke in exactly the right way. Kicking him out was within her power, and it's exactly what she should have done. Well done, Jackie Weaver!

Original poster
PyongyangKipperbang · 08/02/2021 00:40

[quote trulydelicious]@Dailyhandtowelwash

this meeting is part of a much bigger story which has been well documented

Well, even the BBC are letting him explain his side of the story, so I don't know how it can be so clear to everyone who is in the wrong here

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-55946252[/quote]
Not entirely sure of what you are trying to say here. Could you please explain?

OP posts:
GoldieHelen · 08/02/2021 00:52

Brian Tolver was trying to hold up the meeting from even being opened until he'd got the rest of them to promise that he wouldn't be ejected from it

This.

Brian Tosser Tolver was out to disrupt the meeting from the off. His agenda was to declare this, and the previous, meeting illegal therefore rendering it void in order to further his shady agenda

BlueThistles · 08/02/2021 01:53

I don't believe there is any requirement of these Men to explain themselves.. the footage speaks for itself ... despite the efforts of the few to try to say different... whats that infamous Mumsnet saying.......

When someone shows you who they are... believe them...

and better still.... it's on camera

Jackie Weaver did not need to show anyone who these men were ... they did that all by themselves...

hannayeah · 08/02/2021 03:11

@trulydelicious

Tolver and his cronies put the Parish in grave legal and Financial risk by illegally dismissing the Clerk without the full council and without any documented cause. They refused to even explain to Ashley himself the reasons and held their own illegal meetings and discussions to achieve this. One of them mistakenly emailed one of the other council members while planning a way to sack Ashley for refusing to go against Cheshire East legal advice and re-instate another if their cronies who had abdicated his duties for 5 straight meetings. In losing him they lost their tie-breaking vote and thus lost all power. The loss of this member is the reason Tolver hasn’t held any meetings since.

Their inane behavior on that call and attempt to block any meeting from happening indicates they are really fearful of something.

On 5/2 there were a bunch of updates done to the website and missing minutes published. Ashley must have been very busy since being re-instated.

www.handforth.org.uk/

Added to the website was a letter from Director of Governance and Compliance of Cheshire Council about the investigation. It reminds them they are potentially legally liable.
“ Although this does not form part of the obligation of a Monitoring Officer to any Parish Council you should be aware that any member who knowingly acts unlawfully places themselves at risk of personal liability for damages to third parties, and the recovery of any public money purported to be expended by them on behalf of the parish council. ”

hannayeah · 08/02/2021 03:54

@trulydelicious

You’ve expressed concern for the men who behaved so poorly for months that another governing body had to become involved.

Have you any concern for the man who lost his actual livelihood for refusing to go against the law and do their bidding?

shamalidacdak · 08/02/2021 04:09

I saw that video. Men are the worst.

Loftyloft · 08/02/2021 04:49

I watched the last 5 minutes of the ‘sequel’ and the other long suffering councilors (Sue, Cynthia, John) come out as shining examples of good people, dragged into this mess, but doing their best to get things done without the ridiculousness of the bullies.

Also shows the awful behaviour of those men had consequences, at a previous parish council £5k was approved for a charity in handforth (it has a number of teas within it if fairly high social deprivation and need), but this payment never got made. Those guys only care about power, not admin or doing good.

HeronLanyon · 08/02/2021 07:11

I have now watch not only the prequel meeting but also the sequel and read the newly reinstated Ashley posted minutes of various unlawful meetings held by the Handworth 3 (although that makes them sound like wrongly convicted victims of miscarriage of justice). Extraordinary behaviour of the employment sub committee. Smith Moore and Sampson (especially Sampson - a member of that sub-committee who they refused to provide info to) - have got on and started the work of the PC again.
Riveting stuff and I cannot wait for the next meeting or the report from Cheshire East, whichever comes first. Also want to see progress of Smith January moustache !

hannayeah · 08/02/2021 08:35

Agree about mustache.

Who is Councillor Jean Thompson?

“ Apologies were received from Cllr. Thompson. Cllr. Thompson asked for it to be minuted that she has difficulty in attending meetings of this nature.”

handforth.org.uk/archive/2021/Agenda/Agenda-ExO-Jan-2021.pdf

handforth.org.uk/archive/2020/Minutes/Minutes-Employment-Nov-2020.pdf

Dailyhandtowelwash · 08/02/2021 08:39

Councillor Thompson is the councillor who hasn't attended for six months. As she appears to vote with Councillor Tolver, he is refusing to recognise that this means she is no longer a councillor.

Roussette · 08/02/2021 08:52

I just hope that the irresponsible MSM journalism that allowed this story to run unchecked and caused these men to get mocked as far as USA and Australia are held accountable for it and think about what they do next time

I'm sure FB and Twitter and all the MSM are quaking in their boots and will immediately be rewriting how their media outlets behave following that post of yours Truly.
Zuckerberg (FB) and Dorsey (Twitter) are probably contacting you on here now!

Don't be ridiculous. These awful men weren't filmed covertly. They knew it was being recorded and it was up to them how they behaved and i find it amazing that you are defending them.
BTW Jackie Weaver had the authority, as has been explained to you endlessly on here!

There are posters on here who have actually taken the time and trouble to read the Minutes and look at previous meetings and explain it to you. But no, you ignore all the facts, you just want to defend them and criticise Jackie Weaver. I can only think, as a PP said, you are one of their family because it's weird and wrong what you are saying.

frumpety · 08/02/2021 08:54

I think the biggest issue for Tolver is he refused to accept the legitimacy of the meeting (he was endeavouring to disrupt the start of the meeting by continuing to question its legitimacy), and the role of JW in hosting the meeting, he believes she was there simply as a member of the public. I think it is unusual for PC's to get members of the public to host their zoom meetings ?

borntobequiet · 08/02/2021 09:03

Well, even the BBC are letting him explain his side of the story, so I don't know how it can be so clear to everyone who is in the wrong here

Having the opportunity to explain your side of the story on the BBC doesn’t show you’re right, it only shows that you have a different point of view.

HenriettaHeffalump · 08/02/2021 09:08

as has been explained to you endlessly on here!

Exactly. There is something definitely up with that poster to be perfectly honest. People (not me, but other, nicer people) have been so patient, engaging with his / her / their nonsense and explaining why most people get it and they don't. They are either pleading ignorance and acting wide eyed and unknowing, OR they genuinely are ignorant but refusing to do anything about it.

Helendee · 08/02/2021 09:10

They were all awful in my opinion.

trulydelicious · 08/02/2021 09:21

@hannayeah

Thank you for providing this detail. Obviously if there is anything unlawful going on, it should be sorted out and it appears that it will.

I still think it's irresponsible from mainstream media to make this 'a story' - do you think journalists have gone to the trouble to read all the meeting minutes- as you have- before publicly condemning and subjecting these men to endless mockery? I doubt it. And once the damage is done, there's no going back.

I also don't think that Jackie Weaver is a 'feminist hero' (this issue has nothing to do with misogyny - as you have explained) or that someone is automatically in the right just for staying calm and pushing a button.

My last two points is what actually shocks me about this thread/incident

trulydelicious · 08/02/2021 09:25

@BlueThistles

I don't believe there is any requirement of these Men to explain themselves.. the footage speaks for itself

It doesn't, that's the problem. Please read my post to hannayeah

Arobase · 08/02/2021 09:38

Watching the video, Mr. Tolver started to become frazzled when he was trying to establish some ground rules at the start of the meeting and no one was taking any notice. He is offering an explanation but everyone instantly believes what Ms. Weaver is saying, why?

He wasn't trying to establish ground rules; after all, they're perfectly well established and are presumably followed at every meeting. People were asking reasonable questions which he wasn't even bothering to answer. The reality is that he didn't want this meeting to be called, was really angry that he'd failed to prevent it, and was doing his best to sabotage it. Watch the other videos. He behaves like that all the time.

I just hope that the irresponsible MSM journalism that allowed this story to run unchecked and caused these men to get mocked as far as USA and Australia are held accountable for it and think about what they do next time

Does it ever occur to you for a moment that what caused these men to get mocked is their behaviour.? If not, why not? Why do you imagine all the other utterly boring council meetings where everyone behaves properly don't go viral?

borntobequiet · 08/02/2021 09:40

I also don't think that Jackie Weaver is a 'feminist hero' (this issue has nothing to do with misogyny - as you have explained) or that someone is automatically in the right just for staying calm and pushing a button.

Though I suspect the men in question are likely to be misogynists, I agree that they are probably non-discriminatory in their bullying behaviour and would bully men and women alike if so inclined.
However, Jackie can be termed a feminist hero - though I wouldn’t use the term myself, it’s a bit hackneyed - for, as a woman, standing up to bullying, out of control men- which they were. Their behaviour and language were downright frightening.
On the second point, no one has suggested that Jackie was “automatically in the right” for those reasons. People have gone to great lengths to explain the context and back story that explain why she was in the right. I’m puzzled as to why this seems to have escaped you.

HenriettaHeffalump · 08/02/2021 09:41

[quote trulydelicious]@BlueThistles

I don't believe there is any requirement of these Men to explain themselves.. the footage speaks for itself

It doesn't, that's the problem. Please read my post to hannayeah[/quote]
Why on earth should anyone read your posts? You clearly aren't reading anyone else's. You have moaned on and on in this thread, completely ignoring the information which has been handed to you on a plate, responding with articles which contain minimal information and which most people have read and then some! I've reported you as well, as I cannot believe you are genuinely this thick headed.

Marinaloves · 08/02/2021 09:41

Wow thanks for the updates for all those people that can be bothered to read all the minutes etc
what is Tolver trying to hide?!
Why did they sack the clerk ?!

dontdisturbmenow · 08/02/2021 09:43

She dealt with it professionally and with confidence. No it doesn't make her a hero to feminism.

Arobase · 08/02/2021 09:46

Well, even the BBC are letting him explain his side of the story, so I don't know how it can be so clear to everyone who is in the wrong here

Because, for the reasons I set out above, it is perfectly clear that having been given that opportunity he is, shall we say, economising to a rather major extent with the facts. His own conduct demonstrates that. But, yet again, @trulydelicious, you choose to ignore posts you find inconvenient because you can't answer them.,

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