to think that Jackie Weaver is a hero to feminism?

[PyongyangKipperbang]

Because I refuse to believe that those appalling men would have spoken to another man the way they attempted to shout her down. She handled herself so beautifully.

Frankly I think she deserves to be Dame Jackie Weaver for services to common sense!

@viques

Eleganz, I realise that!

What amazes me is that - assuming they are aged 60 to 70 - they grew up in the sixties and seventies. They listened to Bowie, the Stones, Bob Marley, Ska, Motown, they saw the start of punk. They saw their contemporaries become hippies in LA, or wear mini skirts and kipper ties in Carnaby street. On tv they watched the Vietnam war, apartheid in South Africa and the growth of black political power in the US. They watched their sisters and female cousins assert their rights as women, they saw a woman elected as PM. They lived through the three day week and the miners strike. They lived through incredibly fast moving social upheavals that changed social aspiration and expectations. But their mindset and beliefs did not budge an inch to acknowledge or accommodate change.

Their attitudes and demeanour are exactly the same as the late Harold, who was born in the 1930s. So what does it take to make a dent in the armour of male privilege that refuses to evolve.

It's a mistake to assume that everyone embraces the zeitgeist of the era in which they grew up. Sometimes this can be a good thing - we need some people who don't jump on the bandwagon.

In this case, there are clearly appalling attitudes in play, but I think 'how can Bob Marley not have influenced them? (etc.)' isn't really relevant in looking at why they are the way they are. It's something much more deep-seated.

As a comparison, look at the way racism persists even with the huge focus on BLM at the moment - in fact, to racists, BLM is more 'ammunition' than an encouragement to change.

Similarly, a person with the kind of outdated attitudes we saw in the video might well have been angered by the things you describe in your post, and have held even more firmly to their mindset as a result.

I thought the men and Jackie were childish, but the men were significantly more so. Jackie and the Chairman could’ve resolved their issues before the meeting. Formed a professional relationship. Still, I thought the meeting was hilarious!

@trulydelicious I’ve spent a lot of time in meetings, political and professional. There are female bullies out there, but it would be risible to suggest that they influence decision making and culture in every sphere the way male bullying does. To suggest otherwise would indicate someone who hasn’t had particularly wide experience of those structures. It’s not whataboutery remotely worth pursuing.

What amazes me is that - assuming they are aged 60 to 70 - they grew up in the sixties and seventies.

Cllr Tolver looks as though he's in his 80s to me, so would have been growing up in the War years. One of the others was a young man in his 30s.

@CutePixie I think that would have been difficult to do as the Chair and Vice Chair were adamant that the meeting was illegal and so should not have been proceeding at all.

People release that most parish councillors are uncontested and so are technically unelected, right? Usually only 1 person stands for the position and so they are automatically given the role. Parish councils actively try to avoid more than 1 person applying for each available role due to the costs of holding a proper election.

Often less people apply than there are positions, so people get co-opted into the roles. This is why you end up with groups of power hungry retirees giving roles to other like-minded power hungry retirees...

The system can’t in anyway be described as democratic! theconversation.com/local-elections-disaster-for-local-democracy-as-hundreds-of-seats-go-uncontested-115874

@viques

Eleganz, I realise that!

What amazes me is that - assuming they are aged 60 to 70 - they grew up in the sixties and seventies. They listened to Bowie, the Stones, Bob Marley, Ska, Motown, they saw the start of punk. They saw their contemporaries become hippies in LA, or wear mini skirts and kipper ties in Carnaby street. On tv they watched the Vietnam war, apartheid in South Africa and the growth of black political power in the US. They watched their sisters and female cousins assert their rights as women, they saw a woman elected as PM. They lived through the three day week and the miners strike. They lived through incredibly fast moving social upheavals that changed social aspiration and expectations. But their mindset and beliefs did not budge an inch to acknowledge or accommodate change.

Their attitudes and demeanour are exactly the same as the late Harold, who was born in the 1930s. So what does it take to make a dent in the armour of male privilege that refuses to evolve.

This is so true. Recently someone I know from a parish group, when the issue of BLM came up, told me he really couldn’t understand why the term ‘negro’ was considered offensive as it was just the spanish for black and therefore descriptive. I started to explain the historical connotations and resonance of the word and then stopped, because he was a young man during the civil rights movement and frankly if he hadn’t absorbed it then, what was the point of me talking to him about it? It happened before I was born FFS.

@frumpety

It's for the electorate to decide who represents them at meetings. Not Jackie Weaver.

I wonder how many people actually voted for the Parish Councillors, I imagine there would be a publicly available record ? Here, you just put your name forward, if there are the same number of people who want the role as there are roles available then they all get a position, if they all meet the strict eligibility criteria.
If there are more people than positions available, then someone may give way to allow another person to take on the role, I know I would if the opportunity presented itself, but we struggle at the best of times to fill the seats.

I have not RTFT, still back on page 9 with little hope of catching up, but frumppety is spot on. The "electorate" should be ashamed about who is representing them here and they are lucky to have someone like Jackie to step in and sort this lot out. We have someone complaining about our PC, that they should all resign because they do not represent the views of the electorate. But do they step forward to take vacant seats? Hell no.

Perhaps an orchestrated effort to kick these men out. Makes more sense now

Any contested election is an orchestrated attempt either to kick out current representatives or stop new ones from coming in. What is so sinister about that?

As for seeing dark plots in something going viral - surely anyone who has any knowledge of social media knows that literally anything can go viral? Certainly the behaviour on these videos is so poor that it isn't in the least surprising that information spread quickly once a few people had seen them and retweeted/shared, that's literally why it's described as "viral".

@Eleganz and @Arobase

Thank you for clarifying this for me.

So the Opposition (most likely) instigated the viralisation of a video and then worked with their MSM cronies to spin the story and encourage people to come forward to contribute to topple the government

I was confused for a moment, I thought it was like one of these Youtube videos about a puppy who is taught where to poop for the first time, getting 20M clicks

@KizzyKat91

Often less people apply than there are positions, so people get co-opted into the roles. This is why you end up with groups of power hungry retirees giving roles to other like-minded power hungry retirees...

For balance not all PC's are made up of power hungry retirees, but you are correct about the rest

@CutePixie

I thought the men and Jackie were childish, but the men were significantly more so. Jackie and the Chairman could’ve resolved their issues before the meeting. Formed a professional relationship. Still, I thought the meeting was hilarious!

The fact that Jackie was brought in at all hints that a lot had gone on before this meeting. We don't know if she tried to broker some sort of agreement with the chair in advance of the meeting. All we have is that video, where it was clear that some on the council are more concerned with their petty agendas than actually being a functioning committee.

@rwalker

I think she was as bad as them but just more clever. She couldn't of done more to inflame the situation if she tried. She just lit the fuse turned up the heat and let it explode. It was her way or no way, talked over people, Wouldn't let them finish and kicked anyone out who didn't agree with her . If a man would of behaved like that he'd be called a bulling wanker.

She confused control of zoom with control of meeting .

😂😂😂

She did the complete opposite.

@trulydelicious I hardly think a spot of high drama at a PC meeting going viral is going to topple the Government ?

it's rather galling to see these men get away with this behaviour over and over ....

they simply deny responsibility and events... and remain in situ to bully and control forever more... the sadness it that nothing ever changes 🌺

[quote trulydelicious]**@Eleganz* and @Arobase*

Thank you for clarifying this for me.

So the Opposition (most likely) instigated the viralisation of a video and then worked with their MSM cronies to spin the story and encourage people to come forward to contribute to topple the government[/quote]
Sounds likely. I wonder why more people aren’t at it?

@trulydelicious The opposition would be the other Parish councillors ?

The key to this whole sorry tale is that they shouldn't be seen as the opposition, it is a team effort with everyone being as responsible as the other.
If the chair cannot be at the meeting for whatever reason, then the other councillors decide who is going to 'chair' that meeting, its hardly a position of great power ! The chair's usual role is get through the agenda without too many longwinded waffly excursions off the points.

So the Opposition (most likely) instigated the viralisation of a video and then worked with their MSM cronies to spin the story and encourage people to come forward to contribute to topple the government.

Yes @trulydelicious, that's exactly what happened. And in other news, the Clintons drink scared baby blood and the WWII bomber on the moon will be returning to the lizard queen on earth soon.
🤣🤣🤣

@Arobase

It is not insignificant that the people disapproving of JW are those who habitually pop up on various threads espousing a right wing point of view

I thought posters were discussing feminism and praising a feisty lady, that's why I was confused

The aggressive and ignorant arseholes who get kicked from the meeting have no other discernible skills other than to disrupt meetings and berate people. They literally could not agree on the ‘standing orders’ and legalities and whatever else for months, all so that they could call the shots. The people defending these buffoons need to have a word with themselves.

In the meantime the actual people who want to get things done for the local community are trying to behave like adults and want to get on with their jobs. They were being constantly prevented from doing that so Jackie was brought in to try and broker some peace and get things moving. She is excellent and so were the other participants who stayed calm and wanted to get on with the business of the parish council.

I hope Jackie’s plea for more young and diverse people to get involved in their parish councils really works. Places like Handforth desperately need an injection of positive energy and new ideas. The dictator males who seem to be drawn to this line of work need weeding out, they should have no authority, no authority at all.

💡 As an aside, I hope the BBC see an opportunity here. A fly on the wall documentary series following Jackie around as she carries out her work and we meet a whole host of local characters.

What is so refreshing is... JW has been shown as the reasonable person she is. Through her media interviews and at the meeting.
And the rude blokes have been shown to be what they are. Arseholes.
I pity their families because they will not be surprised at their behaviour at all.
Tolver has given one interview saying he has every right to be angry.
I hope they get chucked off the council and decent people volunteer who actually want to do good for the community.
Having looked at footage of previous meetings, there is no hope with them.

[quote pinkearedcow]@viques to be fair, lots of people are small minded and petty regardless of age or sex - you only have to look at some of the posters on MN! These men probably hated hippies and thought punk marked the end of civilisation.[/quote]
true. My point is that my stepfather had exactly the same attitudes and he was brought up in the 30s, (so presumably was aware of the rise of fascism in Europe and post war social changes though chose to ignore them), if these attitudes are widely prevalent today in people who lived through the sixties and seventies as their formative years, and also saw the social changes in the UK of the eighties and nineties, then exactly what does it take to change attitudes and the assumption of superiority that these people appear to take as their right?

my immediate thought was that JW was the one being unprofessional not allowing the men to speak, and evicting them in a power hungry way

That's because you are so used to seeing men behave in an aggressive way that you consider it the norm and therefore acceptable. Bur you are so unused to seeing a woman refuse to put up with this from a man, and to have the ability to refuse to put up with this from a man, that you have misinterpreted this as HER being power hungry and unprofessional.

@bombaychef

I sit on various governor and council type bodies. The clerks are the back bone of it all. A little known profession. JW was a fabulous example of that. I've also seen clerks pull emotional females in to line. I watched the clip and various interviews and love her for all she stands for

Except she wasn't the Clerk. However absolutely, everything else you say. Ours is a bloody marvel.