To think bad dog owners don't realise that they are bad dog owners?

[WayTooSoon]

Kind of a thread about lots of threads...

Every so often, threads appear on here saying someone's dog ran up to them/their child/their dog and how the owners respond with "it's ok, he's friendly" or similar. What usually follows is a load of posters saying "bad owners give us good owners a bad name". So is mumsnet entirely populated by "good owners" or are people oblivious to their own shortcomings as pet owners? Aibu to think that if someone is a bad owner, it seems likely that they have no idea that other people see them as a bad owner?

Are you now or have you ever been a "bad owner"?

@LightDrizzle spot on.

My grandad always had dogs and his last one (which he knew would be his final dog) was a gorgeous Lhasa who he spoiled with food. He went to McDonalds every day and got the dog a cheeseburger (not hamburger, he fed the dog the cheese), would buy gourmet burgers with chilli and onions etc in. The poor thing had so many bum problems, constant diarrhoea and we all begged him to switch to dog food but "oh Bobby loves his burgers though". My grandad isn't a bad man he was just blinded by love.

When he went on holiday for a fortnight I looked after Bobby, and point black refused to give him any gourmet burgers grandad gave me. Bobby didn't eat for a whole day as he completely rejected the dry dog food I put out, but eventually he must have been starving and ate it, and did so for the remainder of his time with me.

When I handed him back I said "He's been on Baker's please stick to this, as he is pooing normally now". He didn't, he have it a day and went back to McDonald's imagine having diarrhoea constantly

Most dog owners are bad dog owners. Most dogs around them are badly behaved so they think it's normal and acceptable. The dogs where I live are appalling. There's a woman that just walks along while her dog lunges and barks and growls at every house where a dog lives, whether it can even see a dog in the house or not. I dont understand how they can even bear it. Or when people are walking with their arm outstretched with a dog pulling. But people don't realise a dog isn't meant to bark at other dogs, pull on the lead, ignore you when you call them back.

I don't think it's bad to have your dog off lead sometimes. My friend's a vet and said if possible, (obviously some dogs just have no recall and can be aggressive) they really need off lead time as that's when they get their best exercise.

If I'm in woods etc, my dog is off her lead but I keep and eye out and if I see people approaching I put her on her straight back on.

I think there is a balance. You can still be considerate and not let your dog run up to people while still letting your dog get a bit of a run about.

I think I’m a relatively good dog owner.
I have a over friendly Samoyed puppy who loves nothing more than running up to everyone to say hello.

We have worked extensively on her recall and she is on a lead in busy areas. We know her limit as to how close she can get to people before she will go say hello and ignore us so we try to put her on a lead to avoid that. Occasionally we misjudge and she does get up to people and we apologise profusely and grab her as soon as possible.

Thankfully everyone has been very understanding, maybe because we are clearly trying to control her.

What do you mean by a "good dog owner", though? Because everyone's definition varies - reading threads on "The Doghouse" shows that pretty much nobody agrees on, well, anything

I also think these threads naturally attract owners who care and who do their best by their animals.

I'm a "bad" dog owner, and I think all of us who aren't perfect are very aware of it.
Our dogs are judged like the naughty children in the playground at school.

Our dog has a lot of issues, and whilst we've had him, we've been through behaviourists, he's been trained, he's had love and guidance. At this point, I think we've got the best out of him that we ever will.
People around us don't like him, the dog who's always jumping and barking at the window! They'll hear him being called in for barking out in the garden, they'll often see me checking for people before letting him out of the car if we've been out.
One of our neighbours has sternly warned me to keep my aggressive dog away from hers.

He isn't aggressive, he's a teddybear who loves other dogs, but is so scared of people all he does is bark at them.

He had a horrific start in life, was apparently born in a puppy farm in Eastern Europe, had either 4 or 5 homes before he was 9 months old, shows signs of having been hit, and as far as I can assume was around quite a bit of violence. If a man goes anywhere near me or DD or near our house he loses his shit. If he sees children he seems nervous and cries.

His anxiety means that we keep him away from people.
We walk him before 7am and after 10pm if we can, otherwise I check the area where I want to walk him and get the walk done as quickly as possible.
He isn't allowed in the garden if there's anyone in the field around the back of the house or the neighbours are in their garden. If hes out and the neighbours go out, hes brought straight in.

He goes to dog care on Halloween.

We do all we can, but we're still judged for the way he is, however he has stopped a fair amount of crime in our area.

Weve often got drug users trying to break into cars and houses, he stopped one of them getting into nextdoors garden just before lockdown 1.0 I was horrified, I went to apologise for him barking like he did. It took a good few minutes to calm him, they told me they weren't home at that time! They checked their CCTV and it was one of the usual ones who tries getting into our cars that doggo scared off.

@Inpersuitofhappiness does your neighbour know of his terrible past? You sound so responsible and your poor poor dog now has the best home. You shouldn't have to justify why he's like that but your neighbour ought to know then they'll hopefully understand and as a fellow animal lover show compassion.

@Inpersuitofhappiness you sound like a wonderful dog owner

There's always SO much judgement around reactive dogs on here. Mine can be leash-reactive to other dogs after he was attacked and bitten on his lead as a puppy. It's so embarrassing and people tutting at you or calling you a shit owner who "can't be bothered to do any training" can be really hurtful, too.

I get it. You're not alone.

As a PP said, how do you define a good owner? My dogs are better behaved than many, but some people would say I'm a horrible owner because I use slip leads...

Most dog owners I see out with their dogs are decent. The dogs mostly recall, aren't aggressive, are picked up after, and are given the chance to run about and enjoy themselves. A fair few are shocking on the lead, but that's mostly the owner not knowing how to teach the dog and concluding it's not possible, rather than not wanting the dog to heel.

TBH no dog has 100% cast iron recall, though many dogs have 99% or even 99.9% recall: I have known a highly trained dog, reliable in work and winner of umpteen field trials, bugger off after a hare. They are living creatures and now and then the unexpected will happen.

And to someone looking in from the outside, puppies make bad owners of us all. They pull, they refuse to sit (that was mine yesterday), their formerly reliable recall goes down the pan the very day there is a football match on the local playing fields.

I have to be really honest and say that I am not interested in having any dog come running up to me to be honest. I like some dogs, just as I like some humans, but only dogs that I have gotten to know. I’m not interested in having a strange dog come and jump on me to make friends, any more than I would be if it was a human.

I can’t bear it when people say ‘it’s ok they are friendly’. How presumptuous - it is certainly not ok! I wouldn’t go running up to someone, give them a big hug, then say ‘but it’s ok, I’m friendly!’

That is the only thing that annoys me though. Dogs running around, exploring, even barking at other dogs, doesn’t bother me in the slightest.

These leads and collars and harnesses that say I don't like ..... or nervous dog / dog in training.
People take no notice

@drinkingwineoutofamug

But why on Earth WOULD people take notice?! I would no sooner look at a dog's lead than I would it's arse hole. It's not a widely known thing that these leads exist and they shouldn't take the place of being a responsible owner

The main difference between some dog owners and many other people is some dog owners mistakenly get the idea that their dog has all the same rights as a human being.

In reality, the law always places the rights and needs of the human above the dog. If an unruly child pokes a dog and the dog attacks it, the dog will face consequences.

This may not seem fair but it is the reality of choosing to own a dog.

Holly60

This. I don't want to be approached by any off lead dog. Ever. I'm fine with an off lead dog that's walking with its owner, or having a run in open space but isn't approaching people and trying to play with them, but too many owners encourage their dogs to approach people.

He isn't aggressive, he's a teddybear who loves other dogs, but is so scared of people all he does is bark at them.

I think part of being a good owner is recognising that your dog barking at others (especially if he's got a loud bark) IS aggressive as far as they can see, and just because you think he's a teddybear it doesn't mean other people should

Most dog owners will do something that other dog owners would consider them bad owners for her. We don’t raw feed our dogs, some people will assume we’re bad owners for that.

I think on the balance, we are good owners but we don’t always get it right. This is when people also think we’re bad owners.

Both my dogs are friendly and love humans and other dogs. Both of my dogs don’t realise that some dogs don’t like other dogs and that some people like don’t like dogs, so it’s our responsibility to make sure they don’t go near other dogs and humans. On or off lead. We tend to put our dogs on lead if someone without a dog approaches, a runner or cyclist approaches or someone with a dog on a lead. It’s a faff. We stop and put the lead on and off quite a bit. This morning we walked them there were a number of toddlers out enjoying the puddles. We put our dogs on their leads and got them to wait until the toddlers passed. Older dog especially loves children and babies so she goes on lead so she can’t get up in their face.

Ours dogs have relatively decent recall, even the puppy. But like I said, we get it wrong sometimes. The other week, we tried doing off lead with the puppy and everything went out of his head and he caused two women jumping at them. We were trying to get him to come back but we still look like arseholes though.

Bad owners are absolutely clueless, that's why they're bad owners. The 'but he's really friendly' thing is totally unacceptable. A deranged cockapoo thing decided to chase me at the park recently for a good few minutes while I was out running, jumping up at me and snapping at my heels. Owner had no control over it.

I'm quite experienced with dogs, I eventually stopped dead and and turned away from it, and it stopped. I know people with dog phobias who would have been scared, and it would easily have knocked a child over.

The owner was just laughing and said that he 'looks big but he's still a puppy.' I was fuming, but calmly told her if she can't recall her dog in a public space full of people and kids, it needs to be on lead because that kind of behaviour could be intimidating to some, and dangerous. She said 'oh don't be overdramatic, he's just playing' and started slagging me off to her friend for being neurotic . These people are deluded.

@BoyTree

The issue I see is that the owner knows that their dog is friendly, but a random stranger they meet on a walk doesn't.

Even if I know a dog is friendly, I don't want it running up to me! It could have won the international prize for the friendliest dog in the world, and I STILL wouldn't want it near me!

This. Really like dogs but have a frightened child. Don't care how friendly the thing is, DC is terrified. And yes, I am working on it but the impression of a dog not under control makes things much harder

I would say so, all his needs are met and he's a happy dog.

I always keep him on a lead when we go walkies though since he's very old, partially-sighted, and hard of hearing. That means when 'it's ok he's friendly' comes running up to my dog he doesn't notice them until they're suddenly in his face and he will either get a fright and try to run off, or snap defensively. I am so tired of the owners of dogs with crap recall telling me how they're really sorry and he's not normally like this bla bla. If you're not confident of your dog's off-lead recall when there's a good distraction around then please keep it on a lead for its own sake.

My rescue dog is reactive and can be dog aggressive if strange dogs approach her or bark at her (she gets barked at a lot as she has one of those faces other dogs seem to dislike). I'm sure when other owners see her lunge and snap they probably think I'm a terrible dog owner. What they don't see is all the hours of training classes we've done, the money we've spent, the fact that she would never approach or react to another dog unless it was too damn close in the first place, the places we don't go to, the walks we avoid, the amount of times I've shouted 'she's NOT friendly please keep your dog away", the tears I've shed after yet another unruly 'friendly' off lead dog has harassed her causing her to react and set back her training. I feel judged every single time she reacts, and people look horrified because their dog was only 'being friendly'. We were in a very large field the other day, our dog was off lead but close to us, as were several others all around the field. Everyone minding their own business and having a nice time. A woman arrives with a large lively Boxer that she took off lead and it then proceeded to harass every single dog it could get to, hundreds of metres away from the owner who took no notice, we saw two different people with smaller dogs pick them up to get away and someone else scooped up their toddler out of its way. We left immediately.

A small fluffy dog (which is my dogs least favourite type) approached mine the other week but luckily DH was with me so he walked off with ours whilst I intercepted the friendly floofer. I shouted to the owner that mines not friendly and could he keep his away please, he recalled it and shouted over "thank you for that, you're a good dog owner". I almost cried, just for once it was so nice to hear.

I have no doubt a lot of people think they are good dog owners just because they have a 'friendly' dog and they feed it good food and pick up its poop. So they don't bother to train it, or to be aware of other people or dogs around them who don't welcome their dog approaching. A genuinely good dog owner learns about dog behaviour so that they can manage their own dog properly, and be aware of what other dogs may be like and what could happen in certain scenarios. And that not everyone likes dogs!

Personally I think all dogs should be on the lead all the time, but then I don't really see the point in owning a dog unless you're blind.

@InTheNightWeWillWish you sound like a very good, responsible owner. Because you're right, dog owners can't be perfect, but because you recognise when your dog's behaviour can be unpleasant or distressing for others, and don't excuse it as something else, that makes you a good owner.

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows

These leads and collars and harnesses that say I don't like ..... or nervous dog / dog in training. People take no notice

@drinkingwineoutofamug

But why on Earth WOULD people take notice?! I would no sooner look at a dog's lead than I would it's arse hole. It's not a widely known thing that these leads exist and they shouldn't take the place of being a responsible owner

If the dog is wearing a bright yellow harness that says nervous dog or dog in training you would have to be blind to miss it .

Dog has one. Every fucker ignores it and goes in for a stroke.
Who's fault is it though if she bites ?

I have a fairly well behaved spaniel ( downfall is on lead walking pulls my arm off without a figure 8 lead)
She recalls responds to hand signals generally well behaved. would never run up to strangers if I see a family with young kids I can recall her back and either get her to sit and wait while family walks passed or go left/right away from family etc.
My annoyance is she a lone dog happily runs/walks off lead doesn’t run up to other dogs....people see a spaniel and let their dog run up to her she usually runs away a bit of a gruff which should signal to the other owner to recall their dog...nope ...their dogs runs again and again eventually mine will snap a firm woof and show of teeth! Nothing major ...the other owners then look at me my dog just wants to play ...grhhh

@Inpersuitofhappiness you are not a bad dog owner. You are the owner of a difficult dog. That's really not the same thing!

To me a bad owner is a selfish person who has no idea of their dogs impact on others. Not someone who has a dog who isn't perfect. Most aren't. Mine isn't.

Firstly the writing on leads thing - you likely can't see from far enough away. The coloured lead idea would work if people stuck to that, but many people have coloured leads. Many average people are clueless about dogs. My DH has never had a dog before and he falls into this. I have to literally spell things out to him. My dog is pretty good. He's a rescue but fine with dogs as long as they respect his personal space if he tells them to back off. So we walk mostly without incidents. However, I do not allow him to approach dogs on lead (there's no way of knowing if they are reactive or just have rubbish recall, and that's why they are on lead- ideally they're should be a system here). Most of the time he's great but he's not perfect. He's also fine with kids and people and does not approach them. He just goes round. If a kid looks super wary (he's not big but I know some kids are scared of dogs) I'll make sure he goes nowhere near them. Its about reading situations.

Many people don't read situations though. They don't care. I used to have a dog reactive dog and it was a nightmare walking him. So maybe I'm more aware. But my DH was of the opinion that ours is OK and therefore sniffing on leads is OK. I was like- yes he is OK, but the other dog might not be? What are you thinking? What if one rips his face off? That's your fault? You have put our dog in a dangerous situation? He just didn't see that until i explained. I know other people that are the same. Drives me mad personally but it's that same old thing with most people these days. No one takes responsibility for anything. Their dog is having a nice time, so what's the problem?