To be sick to death of male violence against women?!

[Conkergame]

Kilmarnock attacks: Mother and daughter killed and man dies in crash www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-55948245

Just read about the poor mother and daughter killed in Kilmarnock by what sounds like the mother’s husband/partner. When will this stop?! And when will it be taken seriously as the misogynistic hate crime that it clearly is?!

Feeling even more fed up with it than usual as I also had a scary incident this week where I went for a run with a friend in the centre of a city at 6pm and got harassed by a man

I’d been so looking forward to going out, getting some fresh air and catching up with my friend and then some d1ckhead had to ruin it by running alongside us saying “I want sex with you, I want sex with you” over and over again. When I turned to confront him and told him to “shut up and go away”, he turned nasty, raised his hand as if to hit me and said, “you trying to mess with me?” in a really menacing way. I’m mid-thirties and haven’t had to deal with this sh1t in a while but it left me really shaken (we ended up sprinting for our lives and trying to ask for help from a stranger, who just ignored us ) Luckily the weird guy got bored and stopped following us eventually, but who knows what could have happened

AIBU to think there needs to be much more effort made to reduce male violence and harassment against women in the UK?

@Viviennemary

Of course that is utterly shocking. Let's have a stop to all violence. Every excuse in the book was made on here for that American woman who murdered a pregnant woman. NONE of it is acceptable.,

Who has said otherwise?

Who? Ever?

Classic whataboutery - shooting down an argument that hasn’t even been made. What is your real agenda, I wonder?

The thread you have -inadvertently or otherwise - misremembered was about the application of the death penalty in very particular circumstances.

it’s done to incite terror, so we will modify our behaviour the way they want. That’s what terrorism is and it’s 100% true with male violence against women and girls too.

And it works. I do modify my behaviour, almost daily with regards to where and when I walk and run if I'm alone or with my kids. I also have to lessen my political impact by only speaking anonymously online because women on twitter who are open about this topic face threats, harassment and banning.

I had this story pop up on my newsfeed on Facebook. In amongst the comments was, quite predictably 'well what did she do? I called it out of course but I am pissing into the wind

@OldPervsWithNoFannyOfTheirOwn that’s a really good point. That would really drive it home and would hopefully make some of the more “normal’ men stop and think when they realise just how prevalent it is. Hopefully the “State” would also be forced to take action as it would be impossible to ignore when the public are constantly being reminded “this is the 136th husband murder of wife and kids this year”

The violence and general misogyny against women and girls is disgusting and I actually feel exhausted with how angry I am about it all. I remember when Clodagh Hawe and her sons were murdered it was the same week my children and I moved into a refuge as
I’m 100% sure if we hadn’t the same would have happened to us. I remember feeling so angry that the reporting of their murders was mainly based around what a lovely wonderful man their murderer was. He’d murdered his whole family and he was the wonderful person. Just no.

My daughter who is 13 has been getting sexually harassed since she was about 11 whenever she went anywhere on her own or with her friends. Everything from “you’re fit”/wolf whistles/honking of horns to shouting that they’d like to stick their penis in her/break her in/demanding a threesome with her and her friend. The latter all happened on the way home from school so they were in their informs. None of them look remotely adult like (and that still wouldn’t be ok) but these girls are clearly very young and these grown men are harassing them and know full well the girls are upset and they probably get a kick out of it.

@Viviennemary

Of course that is utterly shocking. Let's have a stop to all violence. Every excuse in the book was made on here for that American woman who murdered a pregnant woman. NONE of it is acceptable.,

Bit of SWALT in the mix there, brilliant.

So we have the media on "some men are victims", we have a honking "some women are like that", can I get a lovely "NAMALT" to complete my collection?

@Thecheekthenervetheaudacity

The violence and general misogyny against women and girls is disgusting and I actually feel exhausted with how angry I am about it all. I remember when Clodagh Hawe and her sons were murdered it was the same week my children and I moved into a refuge as I’m 100% sure if we hadn’t the same would have happened to us. I remember feeling so angry that the reporting of their murders was mainly based around what a lovely wonderful man their murderer was. He’d murdered his whole family and he was the wonderful person. Just no.

My daughter who is 13 has been getting sexually harassed since she was about 11 whenever she went anywhere on her own or with her friends. Everything from “you’re fit”/wolf whistles/honking of horns to shouting that they’d like to stick their penis in her/break her in/demanding a threesome with her and her friend. The latter all happened on the way home from school so they were in their informs. None of them look remotely adult like (and that still wouldn’t be ok) but these girls are clearly very young and these grown men are harassing them and know full well the girls are upset and they probably get a kick out of it.

God that is grim.

Would the police not take that seriously? The awful comments. Seriously, I bet those men had girlfriends or wives, or children. They should have to explain that they said that to your DD. But in all honestly, would their wife or girlfriend leave them? No. Presumably they know they have married scum.

has got to start being seen for what it is, a wave of terror and brutalisation made up of individual cases.

It's weird how it really isn't seen as this, even if you are a woman on the receiving end. The socialisation to internalise the blame for our own attacks is huge. It took me a decade to even admit what happened to me.

And there's a real push for younger women not to admit that women, as a class, are under threat. It's almost seen as anti feminist. I don't think it's accidental that younger women, with their higher social and political capital (not yet caring for kids & elders, youthful looks glorified etc) have been fed a brand of feminism that tells them to get ahead by being more like the men. It is another effective way of keeping them in in their place. Stop women of all ages organising together.

Agree Wendy.

I had a very abusive childhood. I always modified my behaviour from very young. I was always very surprised that other women didn’t feel the need to do this. None of us should have to, but living in terror means we do. I live in a very safe middle class family area. I would never go out after dark without the dogs with me, even just a few streets up to a friends would be a no go for me. I don’t think I’ve ever slept alone, if dh was away prior to having kids I’d go to a friends. I am beyond hyper vigilant even after decades of therapy. But at the same time many of the times I’ve been over cautious I’ve been right- the man trying to follow me & a friend home one night later raped a girl he found alone, the creapy guy at school I turned down and declared to the whole school needed future rapist tattood on his forehead is in fact now in jail for rape, the guy at work who I refused to work alone with because I instinctively knew he was a risk ended up sacked for sexual harassment, every one of my friends boyfriends I’ve said would become violent did, the ones who sent red flags up around the kids did in fact molest my friends daughters, the ones I said were cheaters did in fact cheat constantly. The only reason I was aware of this is a reaction to the terrorism from men I grew up with. But it often works the other way too, frequently the constant low level misogyny levelled at us becomes so normal and so ingrained it’s impossible to recognise when the boys will be boys talk becomes physical and we become the target. The constant terrorism leaves is in a dissociated state where we can’t see risk clearly and are already well groomed for the predators to move in on easily. And a big part of that comes from the supposedly decent guys looking the other way when the rape joke is made at work or when their brother tells the niece to wear a longer skirt and stop asking for it. The supposedly decent guys wouldn’t say that so they think they aren’t the problem, but they’re the ones in the position of power to challenge other men. So it’s as much on them as the ones carrying out the violence.

@wherethewildthingis

I spoke about this earlier with friends. In my view the violence of men towards women is terrorism - terrorism is the use of fear and violence by one group to try and frighten and control another group. Male acts of violence are endemic and constant, from the daily lower level stuff all the way up to this. In the last few months alone I've experienced a man shouting at me and my friends, as we sat having a cup of tea outside a cafe (when it was legal to do so). In his view we were both taking up too much pavement, and sitting too close together, all at the same time. I've had a van load of men thinking it's hilarious to roar at the top of their voice at me and my friend while we are out running in the dark. Which they did repeatedly for weeks, leaving me anxious and scared when vehicles come up behind me. The police did follow up on that once I got the vehicle reg, but made it clear "the lads" were just having a laugh and hadn't meant to scare us. I am not comparing that to the awful thing done to these women but it comes from the same impulse and the same root of misogyny. The way women have to live their lives subjected to this stuff constantly, is unacceptable and should shame all "good men" who do nothing. if there were two people a week being killed by Islamic extremists that would certainly be put down to terrorism and we would have all kinds of legal measures, campaigns, we would be told this was evil that needed to be stamped out. As things stand, our politicians and police just shrug, make some sad noises and get on with it.

This, completely agree!

So we have the media on "some men are victims", we have a honking "some women are like that", can I get a lovely "NAMALT" to complete my collection?

Shall I oblige?

NOT ALL MEN ARE LIKE THAT but enough men. Enough that, while we may adore individual men, as a collective group they are problematic and they have a tendency toward violence. The fact that people would be more offended by the implication that (collectively) men are problematic than they are by the acts they carry out makes those people part of the problem. "Not all men" diminishes the problem because it perpetuates the idea that the problem is down to a few bad apples rather than an insidious poison that runs rife throughout society.

Really not trying to derail what is an incredibly important thread but men can be feminists too.

Then again I back the He for She movement and believe that until males are allowed to display “feminine” emotions without being castigated we will never improve our situation as women. We, as society, need to allow men to become fully rounded human beings without punishing them for doing so.

Over visiting friends who'd moved to part of UK we'd never been to before last Feb..lots of places to visit/hike..she came home from work one day and asked us what we'd been up to -told her"we had a lovely long walk along this trail, up through the woods etc"she was absolutely shocked, told me off for it just being myself and DD-that someone was attacked there and they had a dog with them-she'd never walk down there for fear of someone doing the same.
Entering the multistory carpark she laughed and said "i wouldnt normally come here on my own with DC" turns out there are random attacks here too..Told her all the places we regularly go In Oz, theres not another soul around and we can be hiking all day without seeing soemone and she said i was mental, wasnt I worried I'd get attacked or raped??I was chancing it..etc. Told her there have been people accidentally injured on trails and beauty spots but ive never heard of an attack-so its like we are living in a wierd parallel universe-she's too scared to do a lot of things on her own/with DC and I dont think about it..
It stuck with us when we returned home and just walking around the parks/waterfront at night..watching families and couples. There is domestic violence here like anywhere (Im not downplaying that)-but I dont take it the day-to-day safety here for granted so much now after my UK experience-there is really a heightened sense of fear/risk and my friend lives in a large town not a city.

I had one male teacher stand by and say nothing when, on a school trip to London, two random guys said to me that they bet I’d like to black dicks in me. I was 13. He just refused to look me in the eye as I stood their humiliated in front of my whole class.

I had a female teacher pull me aside and tell me my top was too low and it was unfair of me to distract and tempt the male teachers and students. Scum she is later married my misogynist of a father who’d frequently tell me I was asking for it in the (school) skirts I wore.

Both teachers were well aware of the csa I had suffered most of my childhood too. Not that it would be ok anyways.

Not including the csa as a kid, I’ve had my butt, thighs and breasts grabbed countless times, in school and out, bra straps pinged, skirt pulled up, bra stollen from the girls change room so id be stuck with no bra under white school shirt, had male teacher humiliate me in front of the class for needing to go to the toilet because I was flooding while the boys laughed with zero consequences, and countless times male teachers or doctors have manuvered to put themselves to close to me or be alone with me when they shouldn’t, put their arm just a bit too far round me when supposedly comforting me so they touched my breast.

That’s before the constant commentary- slut, gutter whore, slag, douche bag, fuck rag, cock tease, bitch, cunt, titties and so on. Plus all the threats that go with it. I’ve put up with so many boys kissing and groping me because I didn’t want to enrage them saying no and get raped again. I’ve left in the middle of the night with nothing because I know if I said it’s over to his face he’d punch mine.

It’s just everywhere, constantly, day in day out. I don’t know any adult woman who hasn’t faced this, not one. And at best the younger ones still face constant objectification.

It is so deeply ingrained, all while we are told women have all these rights, we are so lucky we have equality yadda yadda, it just becomes background noise, like the radio playing gaslighting us without our awareness. So when we get murdered or raped it’s just a bit like well it was always going to end up this way anyways. Nothing surprising about the inevitable. The horror is that it isn’t horrifying, it’s just our regular lives. We eat and sleep and work and bring kids into this when really if we truely stopped and thought about it we’d be so paralysed by fear we wouldn’t be able to breath.

Misogyny is the oldest, most deeply ingrained prejudice there is. A poc gets killed by police and there’s huge public out rage, a woman gets killed by a man and at best it’s nothing, mostly it’s just her fault again.

YANBU

@IWillSqueakAgain

I had one male teacher stand by and say nothing when, on a school trip to London, two random guys said to me that they bet I’d like to black dicks in me. I was 13. He just refused to look me in the eye as I stood their humiliated in front of my whole class.

I had a female teacher pull me aside and tell me my top was too low and it was unfair of me to distract and tempt the male teachers and students. Scum she is later married my misogynist of a father who’d frequently tell me I was asking for it in the (school) skirts I wore.

Both teachers were well aware of the csa I had suffered most of my childhood too. Not that it would be ok anyways.

Not including the csa as a kid, I’ve had my butt, thighs and breasts grabbed countless times, in school and out, bra straps pinged, skirt pulled up, bra stollen from the girls change room so id be stuck with no bra under white school shirt, had male teacher humiliate me in front of the class for needing to go to the toilet because I was flooding while the boys laughed with zero consequences, and countless times male teachers or doctors have manuvered to put themselves to close to me or be alone with me when they shouldn’t, put their arm just a bit too far round me when supposedly comforting me so they touched my breast.

That’s before the constant commentary- slut, gutter whore, slag, douche bag, fuck rag, cock tease, bitch, cunt, titties and so on. Plus all the threats that go with it. I’ve put up with so many boys kissing and groping me because I didn’t want to enrage them saying no and get raped again. I’ve left in the middle of the night with nothing because I know if I said it’s over to his face he’d punch mine.

It’s just everywhere, constantly, day in day out. I don’t know any adult woman who hasn’t faced this, not one. And at best the younger ones still face constant objectification.

It is so deeply ingrained, all while we are told women have all these rights, we are so lucky we have equality yadda yadda, it just becomes background noise, like the radio playing gaslighting us without our awareness. So when we get murdered or raped it’s just a bit like well it was always going to end up this way anyways. Nothing surprising about the inevitable. The horror is that it isn’t horrifying, it’s just our regular lives. We eat and sleep and work and bring kids into this when really if we truely stopped and thought about it we’d be so paralysed by fear we wouldn’t be able to breath.

Misogyny is the oldest, most deeply ingrained prejudice there is. A poc gets killed by police and there’s huge public out rage, a woman gets killed by a man and at best it’s nothing, mostly it’s just her fault again.

So why don’t people start a movement? Because it’s all downplayed?

Why doesn’t someone start a female lives matter campaign or similar?

I get everything you are saying IWSA, and perhaps as a man who cannot begin to comprehend how awful it must be, I just think women need to rise up. Men will join them. But waiting for men to make the first move? Never going to happen.

Bevause female life’s genuinely don’t matter. We get told so every day in a million ways. We are disposable and we don’t count.

But in all honestly, would their wife or girlfriend leave them? No. Presumably they know they have married scum Presumably they won't know, we all assume it's not our DH nor my DBro DS or DF.
Would I be flabbergasted if the police knocked about my OH? Yes. Would I leave him for behaviour abusing women? Yes. Everyone assumes won't be their family but it's someones.

Women have a movement. It’s called feminism. Been around for centuries, there’s god knows how much literature, millions of websites, women’s marches all round the world. This already exists. Women aren’t waiting for men to start anything, but we can’t fix male violence. Victims can’t teach abusers to be less abusive, that’s on you.

We’re also very busy dealing with the ptsd we have as a result of misogyny. And raising kids and most women shoulder much more of the house work and organisational responsibilities for kids schooling etc as well as wft. We’re already drowning doing everything we can to save ourselves.

I will squeak again, every single word you've said there is true. I believe you.
Sexual assault of women is absolutely commonplace and I doubt there is a women alive who hasn't experienced it.
Not our job to fix this stuff. We are too busy surviving it.

I just think women need to rise up. Men will join them. But waiting for men to make the first move? Never going to happen.

Women: "Here are the things we find problematic about male behaviour..."

Men: "Ah but not at all men are like that..."

Women: "Whatever, but perhaps we could discuss the violence, the misogyny, and the sexual aggression?"

Men: "Nah. Womwn are just as bad and anyway, these are problems that affect women so women should fix it..."

Here's a newsflash for you - women are not responsible for fixing problems with men. It is not down to us to end male violence, that responsibility lies with men.

Start your own fucking movement.

@Conkergame

Kilmarnock attacks: Mother and daughter killed and man dies in crash www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-55948245

Just read about the poor mother and daughter killed in Kilmarnock by what sounds like the mother’s husband/partner. When will this stop?! And when will it be taken seriously as the misogynistic hate crime that it clearly is?!

Feeling even more fed up with it than usual as I also had a scary incident this week where I went for a run with a friend in the centre of a city at 6pm and got harassed by a man

I’d been so looking forward to going out, getting some fresh air and catching up with my friend and then some d1ckhead had to ruin it by running alongside us saying “I want sex with you, I want sex with you” over and over again. When I turned to confront him and told him to “shut up and go away”, he turned nasty, raised his hand as if to hit me and said, “you trying to mess with me?” in a really menacing way. I’m mid-thirties and haven’t had to deal with this sh1t in a while but it left me really shaken (we ended up sprinting for our lives and trying to ask for help from a stranger, who just ignored us ) Luckily the weird guy got bored and stopped following us eventually, but who knows what could have happened

AIBU to think there needs to be much more effort made to reduce male violence and harassment against women in the UK?

This is never unreasonable! Unfortunately society shrugs its shoulders and normalises it. "He was driven to the end of his tether by her nagging/demanding..."

Had it heen the other way round, "she must have been deranged..." cue character assassination.

Women are punished much more severely for idebtical crimes because it's "out of character" for women (stereotypically) to behave like that

Men don't want to fix the system because they directly benefit from the continuation of it. Who was it who said that when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression?

@Doomsdayiscoming that’s exactly what the #metoo movement and women’s marches were! But as usual nothing happened - because all those in power are men and it suits them to keep the status quo, even if it means their mothers and daughters are at risk

@FoxyTheFox

I just think women need to rise up. Men will join them. But waiting for men to make the first move? Never going to happen.

Women: "Here are the things we find problematic about male behaviour..."

Men: "Ah but not at all men are like that..."

Women: "Whatever, but perhaps we could discuss the violence, the misogyny, and the sexual aggression?"

Men: "Nah. Womwn are just as bad and anyway, these are problems that affect women so women should fix it..."

Here's a newsflash for you - women are not responsible for fixing problems with men. It is not down to us to end male violence, that responsibility lies with men.

Start your own fucking movement.

Wasn't mysogyny going through parliament as a specific hate crime? Maybe it was pre covid. It was one of the only times remember thinking, "At last!".

Men don't get they are privileged because they have never experienced the prejudice and discrimination. It's a bit like Gen Zedders - in general a lot grew up at the time of the world being on the "up" late 90s early 00s. So because many had better upbringings than their parents their "dramas" for which they are called snowflakes were as real to them as genuine struggles of their parents and grandparents - and it was permitted.

Men are similar, so their dramas are often tribial compared to the genuine struggles of their female counterparts.

The thing is, men are not pulled up on it and it has become normalised in society as a whole.