To ask if you have a child who identifies as trans or expresses disconnect between their gender and sex?

[Scroremanga]

I remember a post which asked how many people on mumsnet felt a disconnect between their gender and sex. Out of 1000 respondents, 10 per cent said they did.

How about people are aware their child or children feel that their gender and sex are disconnected?

Yabu-I am pretty sure my child feels aligned with their sex and gender

Yanbu - my child expresses that they are do not feel

It would also be helpful whether to know whether ds or dd thats experiencing this

Thanks

My son quite often wants to be a girl. But often he also wants to be a cat or a dog. At this moment he has a bow on his head as he is a girl cat.

He’s 5, and he’s just playing. I won’t be taking him to see anyone about it as I don’t want him to be pressured to transition.

If he was a teenager wanting to live as a girl, I would support him. But I wouldn’t support any hormone changes being made to him. That would be his choice as an adult

"can you unpack a bit what you mean by "identifying with their assigned sex"? How does one identify with a sex? Do you mean a sex class ie women as a class [or man]? What characteristics do they think that sex class share that your child doesn't?"

My dc resists being categorised by the sex, and the gender, they were originally raised as (and which is on their birth certificate). They dress with the intention of being unisex/ambiguous, but if pushed would rather be categorised as the opposite sex than their originally assigned sex. They have a driving licence with no gender on it, and a passport in the opposite sex to the birth certificate. They won't use public toilets or changing rooms of their original sex even if this is really inconvenient. That's what I mean by refusing to identify with their assigned-at-birth sex.

If you're asking, why can't they dress in clothes of the opposite sex, have hobbies/habits etc from the opposite sex, and be fine with that without identifying as trans/non-binary, then that's something I don't totally understand. For me that would seem sufficient. But it isn't for them, they insist it is something beyond that. And this is crucially important to them, for many years now. It really matters to my child, in a way I can't dismiss.

Oh thanks. No I understand far more the inclination to have no sex stereotype markers rather than just choosing the opposite as default! But really I'd hate to think that my choices were influenced by stereotypes and marketing (although I'm sure everyone's are to some extent, it's everywhere) even if that was by choosing the opposite or deliberately not choosing something I might otherwise like because it's been designated as 'for' a type of person that isn't me.

The deliberate choosing opposite sex passport is an odd one to me (not trying to police). From that I would assume they just want to opt out of their birth sex in any way available.

Do you think (sorry bit of a useless thought experiment) if both sexes had always raised in similar clothes, presumed to have equally masc/feminine traits, your child wouldn't have the need to identify as NB? Or do you think it is inherently to do with the physical sex of their body and somehow find something 'wrong' about it?

@Barracker

My children know that gender doesn't exist as something people 'have' inside themselves. So it's an impossibility to feel a mismatch between something that does exist as part of them (their sex) and something made up and imposed by others.

However, both of them are aware that there are unfair expectations and limitations placed on them by society because of their sex, and both of them object strongly to this. They understand that this is sexism and this is stereotypes, which is exactly what 'gender' actually is. Stereotypes that other people try to enforce.

It isn't 'their' gender because gender isn't innate in anyone. It's something other people project onto their sex.

This means that when they reject gender they aren't rejecting or struggling with something inside themselves. They are rejecting other people's expectations, rules and sexism imposed from outside.

They know that other people believe in sexism and in stereotypes and like the idea that they are innate to each sex and more meaningful than sex itself.

They are able to see that this is exactly like racists believing that racial stereotypes are true and innate.

We're not believers in racism OR sexism. So we reject 'gender' as vehemently as we reject racism.

and didn't want to scroll by without acknowledging this great post. This is my thinking although I'm always open to have others explain otherwise. And obviously, if it matters, it matters, to those rejecting whatever gender they believe they have.

Well, we did try to bring up our children in unisex clothes, with toys and expectations unconstrained by gender stereotypes. Photos of this DC right from babyhood show them in various gender-neutral outfits, baby clothes marketed at the opposite site gender, and as they grew bigger this child always chose clothes and toys not associated with their assigned gender. School shoes from the other side of the shop. hobbies associated with the other gender. Which we thought was great. A feminist mother's dream, children who don't conform to societal gender stereotypes... Excellent....

I didn't actually expect the DC to go a step further and reject their (biological) assigned sex categorisation. In some ways, I feel that they took my assertion that gender is a social construction, and took it a step further!

Kids are the way they are. Both my brothers LOVED train, planes, cars, motorbikes, boats etc.

My son: so not bothered about the above. Preferred dressing up & action figures.

Very confusing for me.

So, where's the OP?

When people say "gender is just a social construct" I wonder what that actually means.

It reminds me of the bit at the end of Harry Potter, where Harry asks Dumbledore whether what he's seeing is real or inside his head. Dumbledore says "Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean it is not real?"

Very possibly, my child's sense of their gender identity is a social construct and not scientifically provable. Doesn't make it any less real, or genuinely significant to their sense of self.

And yes I do realise that quoting J K Rowling in this context is quite ironic, to say the least.

My children do not “have genders”.

My DDs know that “gender” is a set of stereotypes about how members of each sex should behave/what they should wear etc, stereotypes which harm both sexes.

Neither of them are “girly” but that’s probably because I’m not, that doesn’t mean they aren’t girls.

A girl/woman is someone with a female body + any personality, not someone with any body plus a “girl/woman” personality. To reduce the endless diversity of men and women to regressive stereotypes does everyone a disservice.

I'm firmly waving the trans rights flag, as a feminist.

@Maddaddam - trying not sound aggressive, but could you outline, from your young person's experience, what trans rights transpeople don't have in law?

I understand that the level of informal discrimination must be wearing (as it is for girls & women), but I'm wondering what rights, beyond those guaranteed by the Equalities Act (under the protected characteristic of gender reassignment) are needed?

A girl/woman is someone with a female body + any personality, not someone with any body plus a “girl/woman” personality

This. In fucking spades.

All my children feel their sex and gender align.

@unmarkedbythat

All my children feel their sex and gender align.

What do you and they define their genders as?

Why?

I didn’t vote because I’m not quite sure what you are defining sex and gender as. I’ve seen a lot of conflicting definitions.

For this I am assuming gender means an interest in or identification with things traditionally defined as masculine or feminine.

My DD (10) enjoys a mixture of things that are traditionally pigeon-holed as feminine and masculine. She has a preference towards looking and dressing feminine and is comfortable in her body.

My DS (12) also enjoys a mixture of things, although it seems harder for him to do this without judgement than it does for DD. He mostly enjoys dressing in a traditionally masculine way, and engaging in activities that are traditionally seen as masculine (Xbox war games etc). However he also enjoys more traditionally feminine things like wearing make up (which he makes tik tok videos of) and loves his “feminine” creature comforts like fluffy slippers etc. He strongly identifies as a boy and is happy with his male body. I hope he will not feel any pressure to make changes to his body in order to continue enjoying the things he loves.

Trans rights my DC would prioritise, I think, are the right to self-identify and have that accepted. The right to have "neither m/f" on their passport (which some countries allow).

As a parent of a young trans person, I think an important right is the right to live in the body and gender identity which you feel comfortable with, or that you feel is essential to your wellbeing, and to have that respected by others, whether they understand the need or not.

Also, an important right for me is the right to live without physical or verbal harassment/aggression. Trans people are extremely likely to experience assault/aggression/harassment, often from heterosexual men, and I think feminists should be standing with trans people as fellow victims of patriarchal aggression.

I have an 11yo DD who is showing some distress at going through puberty. She doesn't like the body changes. She has always been a 'tomboy'. She is also possibly autistic (on waiting list for assessment).

However, she is aware of what being trans means and knows a couple of trans people and she's never suggested to me that she thinks she is trans. In fact, she is very black and white in her thinking and does not believe it is possible to be 'born in the wrong body' .

I do wonder whether a lot of girls, especially autistic girls, go through this and might believe themselves to be trans when they are not. It's an impressionable age.

Can we have a definition of gender and gender identity please.

Its hard to talk about, never mind legislate, when we don't know what the basic terms are referring to.

I do wonder whether a lot of girls, especially autistic girls, go through this and might believe themselves to be trans when they are not. It's an impressionable age.

My 11 year old autistic daughter is definitely not a girly girl. Some would probably say she is gender non conforming. She is not in school so luckily is not really in touch with the current fashion for being trans.

It is a known fact that large numbers of autistic girls identify as trans. The disproportionate number of them was noted in the Bell case against Tavistock as was the lack of data on the treatments given before they were placed on puberty blockers.

@stilllovingmysleep

I very much doubt / question the idea that females have to be "one way" and males another. A woman can be tomboyish, have short hair etc. A man can wear nail varnish etc. We need to keep pushing for stereotypes to be dismantled.

I personally don't feel a woman is less of a woman if she engages in traditionally male activities / clothing etc and vice versa

this

I know 4 youngish teens who all consider themselves trans. All girls to boys and their whole friendship groups are now trans. I mean 4 groups not 4 from the same group. 2 girls come from very troubled back grounds and one is on the AS (diagnosed). I know that ALL of them are not ready to have sexual relationships but are curious about their sexuality.

I hope they find peace and happiness within their bodies and with their sexuality. Luckily I know all the parents who are kind and level headed with their support.

No.

Because I don't subscribe to the concept of gender. My children have been brought up as individuals with their own personalities, not some misguided idea of 'typical girl/boy'.

I don't feel like a woman, I am one. I have no sense of being female/male whatsoever.

And ALL of the trans teenage girls I've met (teacher) are autistic.