What my manager said?

[Dipsandcrisps]

I have gone back to work (off maternity leave) this week and have been told that i cannot work from home unless I put my baby in a nursery, no nursery local to me is taking on any new children and with lockdown they have limited slots as it is. My manager has said I need to go part time (husband is home part of the week and can watch baby) as I cannot work at home if there is no one else there to watch the baby?

Aibu in thinking this would be the norm in pre-covid times and currently a lot of parents are working at home with children in their care? Obviously if we weren’t in the middle of a pandemic my baby would be in a nursery before I went back to work..

So confused with where I stand?

yeah for sure look into furlough OP.

To those saying it's impossible to look after a baby and work are wrong, i've been having to do it since the beginning of the year, the nursery I'm at have had 5 different COVID cases so have been shut pretty much the entire time.

In these times, I think it's very harsh. Has just made me even more appreciative that I work for a great company who have specifically said that people need to work however they can. Is flexible hours an option OP? I do, 3 days a week and then 2 days of normal hours. Makes it a lot easier.

Good luck with it all, stressful enough returning to work after maternity without this added to it!

And yes, with schools shut, I'm even more surprised you are getting a hard time. If you had a school age child and are not a key worker, what then?

I voted YANBU as I think your employer should be flexible in this scenario, it's not your fault you don't have childcare. Having said that, it just isn't possible to wfh and care for a pre schooler at the same time (been there in March).

I think you need to come up with a plan that will see you do your hours while not caring for the baby, and requires the least flexibility from your employer. So, working very long days on the days your husband is off, and then a few hours first or last thing on the days he isn't. That way childcare and work won't clash.

Your email should be positive in tone, stress that when you're working someone else will have the baby, and make clear that you're on nursery waiting lists and will return to normal hours as soon as a place opens up.

Of course, this assumes your work can be done flexibly, if that's not the case you will just have to choose between going part-time or your husband leaving his job.

It really does suck.

Have you looked at Maternity Action, Dipsandcrisps, to see what your rights are?

maternityaction.org.uk/covidmaternityfaqs/maternity-leave-and-return-to-work/

It would be good to talk to union rep if you have one to check the legal position re flexible working or furlough (which I know would not be your ideal option in the long term).

My baby is 9 months old and she is not mobile and plays quite happily in her play pen
Is she not crawling? Surely you will be restricting her by putting her in a playpen all day so you can get on with your work? You are going to delay your daughter's development.

I start work at 8.30 I could log on and then take half an hour break when she wakes and get her fed and changed
When your child wakes at 11 a.m. do you expect your employer to pay you for the time you will take off to feed and change her? I think this is what they are concerned about. Your employer knows the input a 9-month old baby needs. You don"t seem to realise.

My manager can see when I am online and offline and I don’t plan on taking the piss at all
Not only can she see when you are online and offline, she can see whether you are using processing time so knows when you are logged in but not doing anything on your computer system.

As you can't get your baby into nursery at present, you really need to go part-time and hope for a nursery place soon. Your child will soon be mobile too and you will find yourself rushed off your feet chasing her around.

I understand your concerns about money. Have you looked into whether there are any benefits you can claim?

I voted YANBU as I think your employer should be flexible in this scenario, it's not your fault you don't have childcare.
It isn't her employer's fault either and they are the ones who are using their money to pay her.

@CaptainSirTomMooreismyhero oh come on. In these times I think everyone needs to be a bit more flexible and understanding. It's not a normal situation we find ourselves in, let alone having a baby in a pandemic.

This must be so stressful for you. I know many employers have been very flexible in similar scenarios but it does depend on the type of work. If you are required to be available between fixed working hours then I think juggling with a baby is unworkable.

1. Will the employer allow wfh if you have childcare? If so you can look for a "mother's help" to be in the house with you while you work.
2. If wfh is not an option at all then ask to be furloughed for 2 days. 80% of your salary should keep you going.
3. If they won't furlough you, could you use annual leave (even unpaid) for 2 days a week until a nursery place becomes available. This seems preferable to a part time contract as your ft hours would be protected. It shouldn't be long now until one of the nurseries can accommodate you. It would only be a temporary reduction of income.

I think if you offer these solutions it would show your employer that you are willing to be flexible and help protect your job.

@CaptainSirTomMooreismyhero

I voted YANBU as I think your employer should be flexible in this scenario, it's not your fault you don't have childcare. It isn't her employer's fault either and they are the ones who are using their money to pay her.

Yes but with a partner who is very part-time I'm sure there is a solution that can be found before OP needs to drop hours. At this stage employers should be open to that, and be well used to accommodating parents' needs for flexibility. I do agree that OP can't really plan to work while looking after the baby long-term, but I'm sure there is a workable solution.

I’ve not read the full thread but if you have no childcare options and your employer is telling you that you can’t work from home when you have the baby (when your DP isn’t home off work) then your employer should furlough you part time.

Have you tried childminders or a nanny in the short term?

You probably can’t work effectively whilst caring for a baby but I also think you shouldn’t lose your job because of the consequences of the pandemic (or nurseries being full). However I don’t think you should have relied on being able to wfh and care for the baby at the same time.

What do you do OP? The question is whether it's a reasonable direction from your employer that you must have childcare for your baby - and that depends on your hours, your role, etc etc. In a pandemic situation, your employer's direction seems pretty unreasonable but it depends on what the role is.

I would contact pregnant then screwed or go and have a look on their website for some advice from a legal standpoint.

What you've described doing sounds doable and to be honest the amount of people working from home right now with 3,4,5,6 year olds at home too, it seems v unfair you would have to lose £1k a month because covid meant your nursery provision fell through.
I would tell them you've sorted childcare now- no issues returning to work and see how it goes. You can always say the 'nanny' didn't work out if you find that actually it's a nightmare.

I do think that your manager is over the line trying to work out your childcare arrangements. I guess they don’t have any trust that you will be focusing on the work rather than caring for your baby. But I do agree, you cannot work from home realistically care for a young baby unless your work is flexible about what times you work during the day. It’s one reason why nursery’s are open, because it wouldn’t be safe for parents to work from home and care for their young child.

@AbsitivelyPosolutely

To be honest, I'd lie.

I see what you're trying to say I think?

Because you're on maternity currently, he is saying you should only go back part time.

Others working full time when the pandemic broke who also have young children are not being told to go part time, it is acknowledged they will have to juggle.

A baby is no harder than a toddler or child of any young age to do this with (both nigh on impossible), so in one sense it's discrimination.

However there are child care options available: nursery, nanny, grandparents and it's permitted to have someone in the home for childcare, so from that respect your manager is not unreasonable for expecting you to avail yourself of the best solution you can find rather than go back full time on full pay, save money on childcare, and inevitably not be able to do your job properly?

@strawberrypip

And yes, with schools shut, I'm even more surprised you are getting a hard time. If you had a school age child and are not a key worker, what then?

The point is that school age children are more self-sufficient so working around them is more feasible. Also there is no childcare available for them apart from bubbles (or nannies I guess), whereas nurseries and preschools are allowed to open so it is not unreasonable to expect OP to have hit childcare. That said, she has clearly tried her best to get a nursery place and COVID has messed that up. It comes down to whether the employer is prepared for her work to be affected yes to the extent that it will be if she tries to care for her Abby and work at her same time. We don’t have enough info about what OP does, what her employer’s concerns are (eg customer service compromised, projects delayed with serious consequences, potential unacceptable risk increases, company on financial brink and not able to bear the loss of income that might happen if eg OP is in sales and fails to meet targets). Employer needs to be open with OP about why they can’t allow working while caring for baby, not just give a bare yes/no response.

I mean, school children are supposed to be more self sufficient but I looked after my primary school aged sisters the other week and I found them incredibly more distracting and, frankly, annoying then my 1 year old. Constantly moaning for food/a drink/to go out/help with their school work/ the list really does go on. My 1 year old sits in her high chair for 3 meals a day, has a 2 hour nap in the afternoon and babies happily to herself and will play independently.

I get what you're saying, that these places for younger children are open but not everyone has grandparents on hand to help or they are like me and had their nursery repeatedly shut due to constant stream of COVID cases. It's just the way it is atm. Yes OP could go part time but it just feels really harsh when it is not her fault and we are in such strange times. Hopefully the OP can figure something out.

babbles*

Dear OP, I have registered with mumsnet just to reply to you. I am a working mother of 4 very young children and am on the board of a medium sized UK company. In the last year, we have all had to deal with extraordinary circumstances which have put a unique pressure on working families, and sadly mothers more so than fathers. Almost every WFH family I know is currently working in a way which is less than ideal from their company's perspective. The majority of decent managers (and I stress 'decent') have accepted that, worked on flexible arrangements and kept constructive communication going with their staff, there's no reason why yours can't do the same. Don't forget that everyone, children or not, may have other issues to deal with as a result of the pandemic which are affecting their ability to give 100% at work.

The main thing is that you work out what is best for you and your family. It will be stressful to return and try the juggle but this is hopefully, a short term issue. Don't let it impact your career long term if it isn't what you want. Questions to ask your manager once you've set out how you think it could work : what specifically are their concerns around your availability? Could you do a trial period? Show your commitment to transparent conversation and doing the best job you can. I find it difficult to believe that all the men are being asked these same questions around their childcare set up.

Look up advice on Pregnant then Screwed and ignore lots of the people on here. They seem to be able to maintain looking after children whilst spending hours on mumsnet - so it appears it isn't impossible to have a split focus. I was sent a link to this discussion on a whatsapp group of working mothers - we were all pretty horrified at some of the responses here, please don't take this community as wholly representative of what is reasonable.

Good luck with whatever you decide and the conversations that follow.

@HaveringWavering

At least you got it.

It felt like the whole "detale" thing all over again (a post from the other day that everyone pulled apart even though it was clearly intentional, in case you missed it).

OP, it's shite. Do you need to work set hours during the day or could you ask for a split shift two days a week? There doesn't seem to be much give or flexibility from your employer which is very disappointing, especially as it's not forever.

@SpongebobNoPants

Also to note, they cannot refuse a request for furlough based on childcare issues due to lockdown. The days you are furloughed don’t have to be a set routine either... you can change them week to week and can be furloughed for as little as an hour if that’s what you need.

Where does it say that an employer can't refuse a childcare furlough request, do you have a link for that @SpongebobNoPants?

It's been a fundemental principle from day 1 that no employee can insist they be furloughed, I'd really appreciate a link for when that changed

Is there any chance of doing split hours for a while until childcare is sorted. So on the days your DH is working you start earlier and do say 7-11 then restart at 3.30 when he’s back? I understand both points of view, you have been let down by childcare but equally they can’t pay you for a job you can’t do. I work out the home and there’d be no option for me other than unpaid leave. Have you contacted the councils childcare service who hold a list of childcare’s providers?

I think I would lie to them and say you have childcare if they won't furlough you. What else can you do? It's their fault for being so shit towards you

How would that help? Surely the employer would say 'great, the issue is solved then. See you in the office as normal!'

It's the request to WFH that's been refused, the OP goes IN to work the rest of the time I think? Or have I read it wrong

Sorry, but YABU.