To want to hear about those kids/teens who are stoically getting on with lockdown

[DuchessFerrara]

Not taking a pop at young people with SEN or MH issues. It must be heartbreaking to watch them endure the isolation and frustration of lockdown.

I would like to hear about the DC who, like my Yr11, don't feel as though their lives have been decimated. Aren't aggrieved to be making sacrifices for the "oldies". Don't feel their education has been wasted because their exams have been cancelled.

I'd love to hear about those DC who are knuckling down to their studies without too much complaint, are optimistic for the future and are - for the most part - pleasant to be around.

I thought it was good to see a thread where people's childten are doing ok, and haven't seen any smugness or judgement if they're not ok...in fact quite a few posters have pointed out that one child isn't ok, but another is.

My ds has complex needs including anxiety, and I am well aware of the tightrope we are walking, and that when the world opens up a bit more for him (He has been shielding) it may well be incredibly difficult - but I am grateful that he has been physically well (This is unusual!), his anxiety has lessened, he is eating ok, and whilst homeschooling is no breeze, we have managed for 8 or 9 months for him to do a bit of work a day, and be happy.
I am fully aware that my ds and dds, who are doing ok now, may falter in the future, but at the moment they're doing well...and I am so glad of that. It has been a long hard year, shielding ds, stopping work, my mum dying suddenly (my children adored their nan who they saw all the time pre covid and for ds especially, it has been hard to comprehend her suddenly not being here). No smugness here, and genuine empathy for those whose children are struggling (including close friends), but it is good to see that some others are doing ok for now .

I agree that everyone needs empathy. It isn’t just people who are struggling and need compassion. In normal life, vast quantities if people plod along doing neither exceptionally well nor exceptionally poorly....their experience is as valid as anyone else’s and they should be able to talk about it and find some empathy too.

A lack of empathy is when people can only think about their own different experience and so not be willing to acknowledge or understand the different experience of someone else. It would be lacking empathy for those with kids doing well to be unable, on a thread about struggling children, to see that is a reality, even if it’s not for them. Likewise, it is a lack of empathy on this thread, for people to not be able to accept that there are children getting in well during lockdown. When everything about a different experience has to be brought back to your OWN different experience and your own emphasised in favour of the different one, there is a lack of empathy.

Of course it is right to be compassionate and understanding about those who are struggling in any situation. But it isn’t the case that every single discussion or thread has to be about those people or those experiences. When it becomes offensive to ever mention something positive that has happened to you or an achievement for fear it will upset or offend someone who hasn’t had that positive experience or achievement, the balance has moved in the wrong direction.

There must be safe places for people to discuss all kinds of experiences. People don’t pile into the multitudes of threads about children struggling and shout that the parents are doing it wrong or the children shouldn’t be having those experiences or that those experiences just do t exist in reality, or keep emphasising that loads of kids are doing great. It would be inappropriate and unhelpful to those wanting support and to discuss similar situations. But why do some people feel it’s okay to do the same thing on the very occasional thread about children getting on okay during lockdown?

It’s probably down to definitions

I don’t see the word empathy as all encompassing

Everyone has experiences though, can talk about them. Get understanding but not necessarily require empathy.

But as I said I align it to compassion and sympathy.

Marsha, maybe look it up in the dictionary.

People studying history have to get to grips with how people in the past behaved in very different ways to we might now...to understand why people did things we might be horrified about today and not just look at them with modern eyes or the judgement if our current age. This is part of empathy.

Empathy can involve having an understanding of what life is like for the very rich or the very successful, or those which seem to have charmed lives. It’s really about being able to recognise and acknowledge all kinds of different experiences and isn’t just about those in similar or worse positions than ourselves, or just about compassion, although that is part of it.

People speak about smugness....but I also haven’t really seen it on this thread, but instead lots of recognition of those who struggle, whilst talking about the topic of the thread which is those who are doing okay. I agree that some people see anything mentioned as positive as smugness, no matter what tone or context it is presented in. But that is a lens through which those people are seeing the world, rather than one of reality. In lots of ways, it’s an example of a lack of empathy actually.

Wombat maybe stop being patronising.

‘Compassion and sympathy are terms associated with empathy. Definitions vary, contributing to the challenge of defining empathy. Compassion is often defined as an emotion people feel when others are in need, which motivates people to help them. Sympathy is a feeling of care and understanding for someone in need.’

There is challenge around it but I would see above as how I use it. You can’t dictate.

I have said dc are ok. It’s still not great as it isn’t a full life for them but they are not particularly struggling. I don’t need empathy for the doing well part. Actually maybe the curtailing life part.

Oh well, if you want your own narrow definition of empathy, that excludes having awareness of the wide range of experiences people have, that’s up to you.

I think the point that many people on this thread make, is that people need recognition and validation of the wide range of experiences people have and not just those that are difficult. That’s really what this thread is all about...a place for those who’ve had positive experiences to talk about them.

It’s been great that people have been able to share those experiences and find those with similar ones....before they have been criticised for being smug or being in a position which simply doesn’t require any recognition, because it’s not one of difficulty.

It’s not my own 🙄. That was a quote hence the quotation marks.

Not a definition of empathy though, but more about defining sympathy and compassion...which I understand are where your focus lies....empathy is defined as having an understanding of the feelings and choices of others.

It can involve compassions and sympathy. Absolutely. But the definition of empathy recognises the feelings and experiences if all people and not just those who might need sympathy and compassion. If you look at the most basic definition of empathy, it is applied to all people and experiences.

Anyway, but if a side track to the thread....so I will back off and let those whose kids are having reasonable experiences of lockdown get back to sharing with each other....and hope people don’t see them as smug for doing so, or unworthy of support or empathy because they aren’t struggling.

This is no way to live. It's like a half life.

Millions of teens and children round the world live a far more limited and challenging life than this on a lifelong basis. Even here in this country. This is our challenge, our turn, and as yet no where near as bad as what others go through and are never relieved of. I do think that we've all got so used to smooth sailing that we just can't comprehend that these kinds of challenges are a completely normal, albeit shit part of being alive and we have lived a privileged and cradled life for decades and were in fact long overdue for something like this.

My dcs have tears and tantrums during home schooling - I see that as them letting it out and we work through those feelings. I’d rather take that approach than them being quiet and getting on, even if inside they may actually be struggling

I think this is an interesting observation. Sometimes the symptoms we might read as struggling are safety valves and a healthy expression of feelings.
Living through this pandemic has been quite a long slog now, with frequently changing goalposts and shifting rules.
I don't feel smug that my DD has mostly coped pretty well, I am thankful that part of what has come with this situation - like home schooling, has actually suited her well. That's not due to any effort on her part, just luck

Wombat it was from a page defining empathy. I don’t need to give empathy to non struggling people but I will those who struggle.

I haven’t shut down posts. In fact I added my own early on.

DS9 is loving it, he doesn’t overly enjoy school but gets on with his homeschooling without much problem. He’s only bothered about his best friend so we’ve FaceTime’d a few times. He has other friends at school but he’s not mentioned them. He’s a homebody and just loves us all being together as a family. He struggles with his speed of work at school, he’s bright but slow working so it’s probably been a benefit that he can take his time and get all of his work done. He’s worked really hard on some pieces and I’ve been very proud of him.

DS7 is also happy this time. The 1st lockdown was extremely difficult with him, he was very emotionally and angry and had outbursts. This time I’m off work sick so home all the time, I usually work out the home. He’s been fine this time. Does his work no problem. He has a larger group of friends but hasn’t mentioned any of them. It helps that he and his brother get on so well, there are few arguments. Because I’m off sick we can use my parents as a childcare bubble so they take them out when DH has a full afternoon of meetings. Pre Covid they would see them once a week for after school childcare but I stopped this with Covid as it felt too risky. I think this has also helped them this time.

It’s not a character flaw to not be breezing through this unaffected. And don’t make assumptions that those who on the surface are doing ok are all fine and dandy underneath. This is going to have a long term impact on the mental health, physical health and social development of that whole generation. Showing off about how well your own kid’s doing is not only crass, it might also be short sighted.

@TubeOfSmarties have you read the thread? Which posts are crass? I think several posters have said their kids are doing ok for now, how 8s this short sighted?

@HmmSureJan. So kids should suck it up and not mind as other people have it worse in other countries? In that case, no one should be complaining about anything in this country as we have it better than people in the third world.

Going by that logic, the elderly in this country should not worry about how covid is disproportionately affecting their live span because they’re privileged to have lived long enough. In some 3rd world countries, Covid is considered to be a rich mans disease as only the wealthy live long enough to really suffer from it. People with cancer shouldn’t moan about not getting treatment because people in other parts of the world don’t get treated? Is that your argument or is it just kids that need to suck it up?

..and no one has implied it's a character flaw to be struggling (hell I think a lot of us are struggling!)

This is going to have aging term impact on the mental health, physical health and social development of that whole generation.

That is your opinion. It's not a fact. Time will tell. And it's not "showing off" to counteract the narrative that all children are suffering terribly. Is it not enough for you that some are?

Dd is in year 10 and coping well.
We have had some challenging times due to covid. We could not get back into China due to flight cancellations and then border closure so dd did not see her dad for 5 months. Between 15th December 2019 and September 2020 she had three weeks of on campus schooling and for most of the time she completed online schooling with a 7 hour time difference. She moved continents, started at a new school in a country she had never lived in and left all her friends in China without being able to say goodbye.
She has been pretty positive and her new school has been fantastic in supporting her and she has made some lovely friends. I am proud of her and her resilience.

On the whole my primary age DD falls into this category. She liked going into school when she could, and she has coped well with learning from home, even when I am attempting to teach her.

It's far from ideal considering she joined her school late, but she has still made some friends.

My teens are getting on with their lessons, not throwing tantrums, doing what they should BUT they are a bit bored and flat. Having said that, dd was howling with laughter on a group FaceTime last night and ds frequently shouts and laughs with his mates on his PlayStation so it's swings and roundabouts. It's hard to make them feel better because nothing will be different until they get back to school and it would be wrong to rush that.

My 15 year old (Y11) niece. She's spent the lockdown periods working incredibly hard and has enjoyed seeing her own progress. She's also an elite young athlete so has trained hard as well.

My brother and his wife decided to get a dog last year (my brother works mostly from home anyway - but the dog goes to its grandparents on the odd occasions everyone is out for the day) and this has really helped all of them, he says - especially my niece, who was afraid of dogs prior to the family acquiring one. She now loves him, is happy in the company of other dogs and they all love their daily family walks with the dog.

My niece also took it upon herself to research sixth forms (she doesn't want to stay where she is because they don't offer all the subjects she wants) and even set up the remote interviews for her and her parents!

15 and 12-year-old here, both very sanguine. No tears or anxiety. Mostly get on with their schoolwork, although both can be a bit lazy and the 15-year-old's mock grades were a bit lower than they ought to have been.

I have been impressed with their coping skills tbh.

until the OP was challenged on why she started the thread I didn't think it was a thread to put down those DC that aren't coping so well, but her response was not what I was expecting, hence why I posted a second time

I was asked if I thought "coping" was a "virtue" and I said no, I think it's a positive attribute. I do. I also think being kind, getting angry sometimes, having a sense of justice, having a sense of humour are positive attributes.

No smugness here and it's a shame people are hurling accusations around on a positive thread. Some people relish being down.

HmmSureJan. So kids should suck it up and not mind as other people have it worse in other countries? In that case, no one should be complaining about anything in this country as we have it better than people in the third world.

No. Luckily I didn't say that but don't let that stop you. I certainly think we should try to set an example of acceptance for an event that was always in the post and try to feel fortunate that we get to experience it in a far less difficult way than millions of others. I can't actually see how anyone could find that idea problematic tbh.

My dc - dd14 and ds11 have both been absolute superstars. We had a bit of a rough year last year for reasons outside of covid. I had a very late miscarriage and a breakdown of a relationship. So I think for us this time has been spent healing.
They are both very laid back anyway, so that definitely helps. I did tell them the other day how wonderful I think they are for just cracking on with all of the changes. I do wonder if there will be any lasting effects from the lack of connection with peers they're missing out on.