AIBU to think that women should be able to request same-sex provision?

[Glinner]

The tweet below is astonishing for two reasons. First of all, as the poster points out, this is the NURSING AND MIDWIFERY COUNCIL saying that one's sex is 'assigned' at birth. They said this out loud! As part of their evidence to the GRA enquiry!

But aside from that nonsense, what stood out for me was the number of nurses, midwives and nursing associates whose 'gender identity' does not match their sex. 4,484! That seems like a high number, does it not? I wonder how many of that number are fully intact males?

You might remember when Clare Dimyon requested a same-sex nurse to attend her during her mammogram, the NHS responded in the most extraordinary way--they took her name off the letter and published it in official literature as an example of a 'bigoted' request.

One thing for which we should be grateful to Eddie Izzard: Now we are under no doubt that in many cases 'trans' means, simply, 'crossdresser'. Are these 'trans' nurses, midwives and nursing assistants crossdressers? Are women within their rights to request that crossdressing men not be present during intimate exams and so on? If a woman makes this request, will she be committing a hate crime?

Here's the Clare Dimyon story

glinner.co.uk/interview-with-clare-dimyon-mbe/

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patient-branded-transphobic-after-asking-for-female-medic-3jh3snddt

twitter.com/Sexnotgender_/status/1357034763039686662

@Purplepeonies

I really couldn't give two fucks what genitals health care professionals have. If they are good at their job that's all I care about.

That’s great.

Do you think it’s ok if other women feel differently to you?

I wonder how someone with a traumatic experience of someone of another race would get on if they requested an HCP of a different race.

@JKRisagryff

PurplePeonies agree with SexnotGender, could you answer the question as to how you feel about removing this choice from other women who perhaps do care about who is doing intimate examinations on their body? What would you say to someone who does care and for whom it is a big deal?

Of course. Would like to clarify I do agree that there should be the choice.

I'm just conflicted because I also believe that trans women are women.

This is beyond a joke. Considering less than 5000 GRCs have been issued, a good majority of these must be self ID trans, which is ridiculous in a healthcare setting.

@Purplepeonies

This is a genuine question here. There are so many people on here whose beliefs are so far removed from mine so genuinely want to understand.

What is it about a trans female that you would object to?

The fact they are male.

I agree with Hannah1329’s last paragraph.

First I would choose a female, 2nd a male who knows they’re a male and thirdly a male who presents as a woman. Obviously if I was in a life and death situation beggars can’t be choosers. But let’s say I’m going for a smear - then I’d have the female nurse do it, may say yes to the male nurse if for example the female nurse was off sick so he was a stand in and asked if it was ok, if I thought oh what the hell i don’t want to have to rebook again and have the faff, but to be presented with a male nurse where you are supposed to pretend they’re female , and go along with the pretence and charade and not mention the elephant in the room , to validate them, nope from me. I would refuse .

For my kids’ births I only had female midwives. But one birth in hospital I was asked if a male junior doctor could come in at the end , and I was honestly quite happy with that, not a problem.
I knew he was training and needed experience (he was only observing).

@ListeningQuietly

If a midwife thinks that sex is assigned at birth

rather than coded into the chromosomes of every cell from the point of conception

I wonder what the standards of the Continuing Professional Development are

Oh come on, FFS!

What is intimidating about a biological man? Is it his penis or his stereotypically male characteristics?

I have a diagnosis of ptsd. Since the trauma responsible, I get a very visceral reaction to Adam's apples. I've had over 2 years of therapy but it's made zero difference. A man delivered dc1 (my choice, they were willing to call in a female consultant) but I didn't want to wait. In my exhausted, dehydrated state seeing his Adam's apple through my legs triggered what turned out to be psychosis. It was horrendous, terrifying and took me a full year to recover completely.

Everyone should have a choice.

@Sexnotgender and @JKRisagryff see dyne same question as me

Perhaps, @Purplepeonies you could address that?

@Purplepeonies

This is a genuine question here. There are so many people on here whose beliefs are so far removed from mine so genuinely want to understand.

What is it about a trans female that you would object to?

Can you really not understand that for example where a woman has been raped, asking her to strip from the waist down and lie on her back, legs akimbo, just might be a tiny bit triggering?

What about Muslim or Orthodox Jewish women?

Apologies, @Purplepeonies, this is a fast moving thread so ignore my last (completely garbled!) post

@Purplepeonies

This is a genuine question here. There are so many people on here whose beliefs are so far removed from mine so genuinely want to understand.

What is it about a trans female that you would object to?

Do you mean a female trans man or a male trans woman?

If you want to pick who provides your public health care and want to wait for a particular type of person that's fine.
I'd rather just get my treatment as quick as possible.

@Purplepeonies

This is a genuine question here. There are so many people on here whose beliefs are so far removed from mine so genuinely want to understand.

What is it about a trans female that you would object to?

Did you read the post? Its not even about trans female

Language is important

Choice is important

@HeidiHaughton

If you want to pick who provides your public health care and want to wait for a particular type of person that's fine. I'd rather just get my treatment as quick as possible.

But do you agree women should have the right to request a female practitioner to carry out intimate care (if it's important to them), without fear of being labelled transphobic / bigoted?

I couldn't give a fuck, in fact I prefer men as in my experience, they are gentler when doing pelvic exams but if I asked for a woman and a trans woman came in I'd be furious. If I ask for a same sex clinician then I want someone who has the same genitals as I do. This should never be an issue. The comfort of the patient should come first before the validation of the medics gender identity.

@Moonmelodies

I wonder how someone with a traumatic experience of someone of another race would get on if they requested an HCP of a different race.

This is an interesting question. I was sexually assaulted by an African male nurse. I would be petrified of being examined by an African male HCP but I daren’t say that IRL as I will likely be accused of racist. My reason it is only African male HCP’s is because many other African HCP’s (male and female) stated it was a cultural misunderstanding!

Midwife notes that 3 baby girls were born than day. When the fourth baby girl arrives, she decides to 'assign' the baby a penis.

But for people who mention chaperones - what if the GP is a male doctor, asks if you want a chaperone, and then the nurse chaperone who comes in is a transwoman?

To be fair to the NHS when I was recently called for a bowel scan, I requested an all female team and was immediately booked an appointment with an all female team without issue. There was a male nurse in the unit but I asked that he left the room which he did immediately.

@Dinosauratemydaffodils
I'm really sorry to hear that - I hope you're ok now, or managing it at least!

That's an interesting point - as someone who's not suffered something similar I can actually imagine how that could be triggering

I suppose, referencing someone else's post, could other physical.characteristics (not necessarily related to sex) be similarly triggering?

My 12 year old dd had to have an intimate examination and the nice male gp gently insisted his female colleague did it. So glad he did dd was only just able to consent to that no way would she have let a man do it.

I had a man deliver my baby, forceps, episiotomy. It didn't even cross my mind and didn't bother me, but if I had asked for a woman for any reason, it would have. I'm very shy with my bits, so I imagine that any woman who requests a female has a very good reason for it and that should be respected. Why is this a problem when trans people are trying to sue and ruin the lives of doctors all because they pointed out the extremely terrible risks of transitioning? They're branded transphobic for this. I've never witnessed entitlement in my life!

I could have had an alien helping me while in labour and wouldn't have cared.

After a horrible, traumatic experience at the hands of a male doctor and 5 male students during a vaginal exam when I was a teenager, I have always since then requested female nurses or doctors where possible. It's never been an issue at all........but now I'm wondering, would it be these days? :(