AIBU to think that women should be able to request same-sex provision?

[Glinner]

The tweet below is astonishing for two reasons. First of all, as the poster points out, this is the NURSING AND MIDWIFERY COUNCIL saying that one's sex is 'assigned' at birth. They said this out loud! As part of their evidence to the GRA enquiry!

But aside from that nonsense, what stood out for me was the number of nurses, midwives and nursing associates whose 'gender identity' does not match their sex. 4,484! That seems like a high number, does it not? I wonder how many of that number are fully intact males?

You might remember when Clare Dimyon requested a same-sex nurse to attend her during her mammogram, the NHS responded in the most extraordinary way--they took her name off the letter and published it in official literature as an example of a 'bigoted' request.

One thing for which we should be grateful to Eddie Izzard: Now we are under no doubt that in many cases 'trans' means, simply, 'crossdresser'. Are these 'trans' nurses, midwives and nursing assistants crossdressers? Are women within their rights to request that crossdressing men not be present during intimate exams and so on? If a woman makes this request, will she be committing a hate crime?

Here's the Clare Dimyon story

glinner.co.uk/interview-with-clare-dimyon-mbe/

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patient-branded-transphobic-after-asking-for-female-medic-3jh3snddt

twitter.com/Sexnotgender_/status/1357034763039686662

After having 3 children and showing my bits off to various medical professionals, one male plastic surgeon. I don’t think I would mind as long the person was professional and suitably qualified with the right people skills etc, however after 3 children I have no shame lol.

YANBU, birthing and labour is an extremely personal experience and I can see how ladies could feel uncomfortable, I wouldn’t of had such liberal views with my first baby.

If a midwife thinks that sex is assigned at birth

rather than coded into the chromosomes of every cell from the point of conception

I wonder what the standards of the Continuing Professional Development are

This is beyond astonishing. If we cannot rely on the NMC to use accurate language regarding how biological sex is determine, if not even they will speak plainly, point out the emperor hasn’t got a stitch on, who will? What public body will do the right thing?

Of course yanbu and this is not really about women being happy with males for medical care or not.
If I asked for a woman and they said we’re sorry there are only men available that would be fine. My concern here is that you could ask for a woman and he given a transwoman as they identified as female.
This is why the difference between sex and gender needs to be clear and differentiated in law.

I don’t know how anyone can say otherwise.

Which is it to be, should a woman who requests a female medic be denied care? Or should she be forced into receiving care from a male-bodied person? This is basically what it comes down to when you’re removing the right to same-sex provision and calling anyone uncomfortable with it bigots. They probably have very good reasons for being distrustful/wary around males.

It would be very nice to be able to say let’s all be kind and get along and sweep all the pressing issues under the rug for now. These are the questions we need straight answers to. No one seems to want to answer these questions as they want to stay woke without having to say out loud, ‘We don’t care about re-traumatising victims of abuse. We don’t care what a woman’s boundaries are. We want women who feel uncomfortable/scared/suspicious around males to put their feelings aside. Males should be allowed to do intimate examinations on uncomfortable/scared/suspicious females to help them feel validated’

@DitzyFakeBlonde

After having 3 children and showing my bits off to various medical professionals, one male plastic surgeon. I don’t think I would mind as long the person was professional and suitably qualified with the right people skills etc, however after 3 children I have no shame lol.

YANBU, birthing and labour is an extremely personal experience and I can see how ladies could feel uncomfortable, I wouldn’t of had such liberal views with my first baby.

This is not unreasonable.

Choice is important. Some women may not mind having a man carry out their intimate care, whereas others will and they should be allowed to say so without fear of being labelled a bigot.

Personally, my first choice would always be a woman (female). I would not mind a man doing it if a woman was unavailable, however I would not be comfortable with a male person who was presenting as a woman and expected me to act as if he were a woman too. That’s just too sinister in those intimate situations.

I had about 20 odd people involved in my pregnancy from start to finish so I don't think it would have been possible to ask for female sex only care - not sure how I would have felt about that if I'd suffered precious trauma. All my anaesthetists were male, for instance, and male auxiliaries helped move me onto the operating table.
I think I understand where the sentiment comes from and not sure what the right answer is but sometimes you just won't be able to get an all-female sexed team.
On a completely different side of the argument, what would people think of a female sexed male gendered trans person providing care?

I’d be happy with a female person who presented using male stereotypes.

@peak2021

YANBU indeed same sex provision for any intimate medical care. I'd argue that a man should be able to ask for a man for a prostate exam as well.

Yes, I'd vote for all people being able to request same sex provision, or for that matter opposite sex provision for intimate medical care.

I am female but also now choose “other”when the female box states female including transwomen as I don’t feel it reflects my status if that makes sense?

I've had male and female HCP when pregnant and I'm OK with either but people should have a choice. My mother was traumatised when she had a midwife who was a nun. She said it was embarrassing as the nun would never have had sex and obviously she knew my mother had. I wonder what they would have said if she asked for a midwife who'd had sex.

I really couldn't give two fucks what genitals health care professionals have. If they are good at their job that's all I care about.

@Purplepeonies

I really couldn't give two fucks what genitals health care professionals have. If they are good at their job that's all I care about.

Good for you. Do you think we should remove the choice from people who do mind?

YANBU, obviously. Nobody requesting same- sex care in a sensitive situation is BU. Women should be able to have single sex care and same sex care providers.

After having my kids IIRC both surgeons who did the stitches were blokes
which was fine by me
BUT
If I'd requested female staff
(for personal, societal or religious reasons)
I'd be suing the NHS if they lied to me

and it IS lying to say that men are women

I don't want to offend here so take this as a genuinely open question...

What is intimidating about a biological man? Is it his penis or his stereotypically male characteristics?

Apologies if that is an offensive question!

I agree it’s about choice. I personally don’t care who treats me as long as there is a chaperone for intimate examinations, I don’t have a preference of sex. But just because this is my point of view doesn’t mean I can decide that for other people. I know a lot of women who would be traumatised by having males conduct intimate examinations, some of whom have actually been sexually assaulted before by medical professionals. This is not a hypothetical debate for them, this is real trauma, being brushed aside.

@ListeningQuietly

After having my kids IIRC both surgeons who did the stitches were blokes which was fine by me BUT If I'd requested female staff (for personal, societal or religious reasons) I'd be suing the NHS if they lied to me

and it IS lying to say that men are women

This is exactly how I feel too. It's the dishonesty and pretence I wouldn't like.

I was assaulted by a GP, horrible as he was my mother's GP when she was pregnant with me. She was sitting at his desk when he did it, he broke my hymen and I didn't even understand what happened. I was about 12, I suppose it always was at the back of my mind that something was wrong but it was years later that I suddenly realised what happened.

This is a genuine question here. There are so many people on here whose beliefs are so far removed from mine so genuinely want to understand.

What is it about a trans female that you would object to?

@Purplepeonies

I really couldn't give two fucks what genitals health care professionals have. If they are good at their job that's all I care about.

Some people won't mind. I don't think that means people shouldn't be able to choose though. It's a matter of consent.

I don’t care about the gender of HCP’s either as long as they can do the job. Anything such as a breast exam and there’s always a chaperone anyway. I’ve had male gynaecologists as many are.

Also to point out that some are outraged that the NMC collect this data, please remember nurses are exposed to hazards such as radiation and some procedures require women of a child bearing age not being present/distanced. It is likely any nursing or midwifery staff working in such areas will have to declare their sex at birth to their manager if they are at risk of this.

PurplePeonies agree with SexnotGender, could you answer the question as to how you feel about removing this choice from other women who perhaps do care about who is doing intimate examinations on their body? What would you say to someone who does care and for whom it is a big deal?

Oh I do think everyone should have the right to request. But remember that doesn’t mean your request must be granted as sometimes it just won’t be possible. The right to request does not necessarily mean the right to have.