To ask for help with my 4 year old

[Sunbo]

I have a 4 year old DS who is in trouble at pre school for being disruptive, not listening to the teachers and generally being difficult. He has been there for around 6 months.

Today he was in a lot of trouble because he hit another child and caused them to bleed. I feel absolutely awful about it :( When I spoke to him about it he said he was playing and being a ‘baddie’ so didn’t mean to hurt the other child.

The teachers are getting frustrated with him as he needs constant reminders to behave nicely and sometimes just refuses to listen to them or laughs in their face when they tell him off. They have tried a sticker chart for good behaviour but it’s like he couldn’t care less about it.

At home he can be stubborn and difficult but he does listen when I or my DH tell him off. We follow a ‘positive parenting’ way (Aha parenting if anyone knows it) so we don’t do a naughty step or punishment but set limits and are quite clear about what behaviour is unacceptable. It’s with the idea that children should behave because they want to and know they should rather than because of the threat of punishment.

I have an older DD who is 8 and she has always been as good as gold with no issues so I honestly have no idea where I am going wrong with my DS! I have also tried sticker charts at home but he just doesn’t seem bothered by them. He is quite rigid and when we suggest going out or trying new things he often says no, even though he enjoys things when he does them...not sure if this is relevant. He can be such a sweet and loving boy at times but then other times it’s like he gets taken over with anger and / or silliness and can’t reign himself in.

I have read various parenting books but honestly don’t know what I can do...can anyone help please? Or suggest books or anything that might assist?

Thanks

Do you know exactly what he did that made the other child bleed OP? Was it from a scratch or was it a nosebleed? To me there’s a big difference between hurting someone in a genuine accident (for example if he’s waving his arms about and getting overexcited) and intentionally hitting someone because he’s playing at being a baddie, even if it didn’t actually mean to hurt them.

I must admit I misread your original post as ‘he bit another child and made them bleed’

you have created a child that other people don't like.

What a shitty thing to say. Shameful. Would you say that to parents of a child with additional needs @JovialNickname

Is it not true though that people don't like
NT people who are uncooperative and not socially well behaved. That's a given... I thought?

You cant like everyone and it is very difficult to like somebody who has no boundaries or refuses to work with others. Child or adult.

For goodness sake, those of you suggesting SEN after a few weeks of behaviour after a 4 year old has increased his hours at his childcare setting need a head check.

He’s still adjusting to his new hours, I do agree that your parenting style isn’t working. I’ve looked on the website about Aha and it says all consequences are bad. Of course they’re not, they are a part of life. I have never hit or shouted at my child and I cuddle them whilst talking through emotions around the behaviour but there are still consequences and they understand that. He needs firmer boundaries, he needs to be sure knowing which behaviour is ok and which is not ok. That doesn’t mean you suddenly turn into a monster it means that you are teaching him how to behave and what is and isn’t acceptable.

I really wouldn’t be getting any professionals involved, his behaviour is only ‘difficult’ at nursery and it’s been weeks!

Actually I correct myself..in the childs case they are not refusing to cooperate..they just dont have the boundaries and tools to.

@Bigbigbirfday

SEN parents sitting quietly. Knowing.

As a SEN mum here and im not doing what ur doing

@Aiaiaicorona

For goodness sake, those of you suggesting SEN after a few weeks of behaviour after a 4 year old has increased his hours at his childcare setting need a head check.

He’s still adjusting to his new hours, I do agree that your parenting style isn’t working. I’ve looked on the website about Aha and it says all consequences are bad. Of course they’re not, they are a part of life. I have never hit or shouted at my child and I cuddle them whilst talking through emotions around the behaviour but there are still consequences and they understand that. He needs firmer boundaries, he needs to be sure knowing which behaviour is ok and which is not ok. That doesn’t mean you suddenly turn into a monster it means that you are teaching him how to behave and what is and isn’t acceptable.

I really wouldn’t be getting any professionals involved, his behaviour is only ‘difficult’ at nursery and it’s been weeks!

I agree with this and say this as a SEN mum but also a nursery nurse who went on to be nursery teacher , If a child has a completely different being parented at home to nursery and increased hours at nursery then its very likely thats the issue.

I think sometimes sites like Aha Parenting can be really good if a child is minded to behave well to start with and has good coping skills and mechanisms to deal with everyday frustrations, but they can be lacking where there are real problem behaviours, because the approach to just wait and their development will catch up sometimes isn't right.

The problem is that there are some really good points/aspects to the non-punishment approach, but these are lost in many cases, if a parent struggles with boundaries or a child has challenging behaviour.

In this case, I think you need the "next step" on from positive parenting which is looking at a skills deficit model. Skills deficit has been used in the special needs world for decades but it is coming more into "mainstream" parenting now and I think it's fantastic - because it addresses the root cause it really works for all children. It's more necessary for special needs kids, because mainstream or traditional approaches don't work for them, but you can also just skip straight to this style of parenting if you're not keen on rewards and punishment type parenting.

These are resources I've found helpful or aligned with this kind of approach. Non punitive but do actually address problem behaviours. No shying away from conflict here, which I think sometimes "positive/gentle" parenting can do.

Ross Greene - either The Explosive Child, which is aimed at parents of behaviourally challenging children, or Raising Human Beings, which is the same model but showing how it can be applied to all children.

Janet Lansbury's Unruffled podcast/website articles, particularly her stuff about boundaries and really accepting feelings. (Might be more relevant if it's you struggling to place a boundary, rather than a boundary not working.)

The Whole Brain Child, and No Drama Discipline

Parent Effectiveness Training

Smart But Scattered - and any books about Executive Functioning Skills in children.

OP, it is impossible and daft for others to diagnose your child as SEN over an Internet forum.

As someone who also followed gentle parenting. I can tell you that the principles are well meaning however they do not also enable young kids to get a firm grasp on adult authority and why it matters. I experienced this with one of my own sons and realised that through “explaining” his behaviour to him and enabling him to realise natural consequences (which at 4, they struggle to connect) I had failed to help him integrate into the society in which we live.

In short, you have not given him an sense of adult authority so others have had to and will continue to have to until you adopt a more proactive approach. This does not need to be unkind or completely different to the PRINCIPLES of gentle parenting etc but you need to help your little boy understand how his behaviour is impacting on others. How do you deal with his behaviour when he made a tiger child bleed?

I’d suggest you start by telling him no a little more and making it clear that he is a child and you are an adult.

Your parenting needs to evolve for the child you have. Not the books your read before you met/had your child.

Calvinlookingforhobbes “ OP, it is impossible and daft for others to diagnose your child as SEN over an Internet forum.”

No one has done that. Not one person. They have simply pointed out that their experiences show some similarities.

@forrestgreen. I was a primary teacher and managed 30 children without shouting. I'm not bragging when I say they still loved me after I put in place rules and boundaries. Ch need to know where they stand. And the cheeky ones were more entertaining to teach..

You sound like the perfect primary school teacher for my DS. I hope he has a teacher who is willing to set firm boundaries in a good-natured and affectionate way when he starts school, as he does have a tendency to push boundaries and not listen when he wants to do things.

OP, I doubt you'd agree with much of my parenting style but one thing that does work well for us with low-level misbehaviour is "choices" that aren't really choices. So if my DS is being silly in the playground, I'll say to him, "Do you want to play nicely and take turns or do you want to go home?". If he's misbehaving at home and being rough with his toys, I say, "Do you want to be gentle with your toys or do you want to go and sit on the stairs?" Usually, that's enough to get him back in line but occasionally we have to follow through on his bad "choices".

This thread is bonkers. Suggesting he needs therapy and the nursery arent meeting his needs. He is bloody naughty. Why is that such a bad word on this site?! He doesnt need excusing he needs boundaries.

It is not ok that he injured another child so much they bled. Constantly excusing away his behaviour does him no favours.

A therapist? Ffs.

I think there are some big misunderstandings of peaceful/gentle parenting here. I don't believe that all kids raised using these methods are 'at sea' with no sense of where the boundaries are. It's perfectly possible to have very firm boundaries and also to enforce them lovingly. I actually think peaceful/gentle parenting in some ways asks more of children because you do not fall back on bribes/rewards.

@loretta81

I think there are some big misunderstandings of peaceful/gentle parenting here. I don't believe that all kids raised using these methods are 'at sea' with no sense of where the boundaries are. It's perfectly possible to have very firm boundaries and also to enforce them lovingly. I actually think peaceful/gentle parenting in some ways asks more of children because you do not fall back on bribes/rewards.

And it is just possible imo that it asks too much of some children.

I think its lovely we now give children many more choices than I bet a lot of us had growing up!!

But some things just aren't up for discussion or a choice.

Like misbehaving and being disrespectful/harmful to others.

If children have no real consequences or punishment..they head off into the world as adults who feel constantly hard done by and not being praised enough.
I've taught children like this up to adulthood. It doesn't really change.

Also seeing a child bleeding or hurt having to watch the offending child be cuddled or spoken to nicely and not being punished or held accountable..makes that hurt child confused and think it must be ok.

So many children in one of my classes used to ask constantly ''Why is Francesca always allowed to take my snack/pull my hair/run away from the line etc.
They asked me personally why they get into trouble and Francesca doesn't. (Because if I tell Francesca off,I will have the police and social services calling me again for a safeguarding meeting,that's why children
Nobody likes Francesca..expect her parents.
I feel for Francesca because when she goes out into the world by herself..its going to be difficult
Its already dfficult for her now.

Nobody plays with her and when her mum finds out why nobody is playing with her...she scoops Francesca up and kisses her telling her shes special and not to change if people cant appreciate her ....I mean...😲
.

Janet Lansbury provides excellent examples of a gentle but very firm approach to boundaries on her podcasts/website.

A therapist? Ffs.

Crazy isn't it.

I could start a whole thread on the disruption and trouble(and fear) that just two aha parenting mothers have caused me.

Ugh. Typos..sorry

@BertieBotts

I think sometimes sites like Aha Parenting can be really good if a child is minded to behave well to start with and has good coping skills and mechanisms to deal with everyday frustrations, but they can be lacking where there are real problem behaviours, because the approach to just wait and their development will catch up sometimes isn't right.

The problem is that there are some really good points/aspects to the non-punishment approach, but these are lost in many cases, if a parent struggles with boundaries or a child has challenging behaviour.

In this case, I think you need the "next step" on from positive parenting which is looking at a skills deficit model. Skills deficit has been used in the special needs world for decades but it is coming more into "mainstream" parenting now and I think it's fantastic - because it addresses the root cause it really works for all children. It's more necessary for special needs kids, because mainstream or traditional approaches don't work for them, but you can also just skip straight to this style of parenting if you're not keen on rewards and punishment type parenting.

These are resources I've found helpful or aligned with this kind of approach. Non punitive but do actually address problem behaviours. No shying away from conflict here, which I think sometimes "positive/gentle" parenting can do.

Ross Greene - either The Explosive Child, which is aimed at parents of behaviourally challenging children, or Raising Human Beings, which is the same model but showing how it can be applied to all children.

Janet Lansbury's Unruffled podcast/website articles, particularly her stuff about boundaries and really accepting feelings. (Might be more relevant if it's you struggling to place a boundary, rather than a boundary not working.)

The Whole Brain Child, and No Drama Discipline

Parent Effectiveness Training

Smart But Scattered - and any books about Executive Functioning Skills in children.

Thanks for this really helpful post.

Also seeing a child bleeding or hurt having to watch the offending child be cuddled or spoken to nicely and not being punished or held accountable..makes that hurt child confused and think it must be ok.

I do agree children need to understand the consequences of their actions and to an extent be held accountable (age dependent) but I don't think there's any need to speak nastily and refrain from cuddling a small child who misbehaves.

@BertieBotts

Very helpful post thank you, will look into those resources. I have ordered the Explosive child book based on a few people recommending it too

@Notimeforaname that sounds crazy, but I'm sure a parent calling police and ss on you - and them actually responding - because you merely told a child off is surely not the norm... Never heard anything like it before. I would be wary of tarring all parents who follow aha or positive parenting with the same brush. And no I don't follow it.

What actually happened?

@Notimeforaname. Interesting post. Personally, I don't understand what is wrong with telling children that if they're nasty and obnoxious, they've only themselves to blame if other children don't like them or want to play with them. Even little ones can grasp this concept if relayed to them in an age-appropriate way.