To ask for help with my 4 year old

[Sunbo]

I have a 4 year old DS who is in trouble at pre school for being disruptive, not listening to the teachers and generally being difficult. He has been there for around 6 months.

Today he was in a lot of trouble because he hit another child and caused them to bleed. I feel absolutely awful about it :( When I spoke to him about it he said he was playing and being a ‘baddie’ so didn’t mean to hurt the other child.

The teachers are getting frustrated with him as he needs constant reminders to behave nicely and sometimes just refuses to listen to them or laughs in their face when they tell him off. They have tried a sticker chart for good behaviour but it’s like he couldn’t care less about it.

At home he can be stubborn and difficult but he does listen when I or my DH tell him off. We follow a ‘positive parenting’ way (Aha parenting if anyone knows it) so we don’t do a naughty step or punishment but set limits and are quite clear about what behaviour is unacceptable. It’s with the idea that children should behave because they want to and know they should rather than because of the threat of punishment.

I have an older DD who is 8 and she has always been as good as gold with no issues so I honestly have no idea where I am going wrong with my DS! I have also tried sticker charts at home but he just doesn’t seem bothered by them. He is quite rigid and when we suggest going out or trying new things he often says no, even though he enjoys things when he does them...not sure if this is relevant. He can be such a sweet and loving boy at times but then other times it’s like he gets taken over with anger and / or silliness and can’t reign himself in.

I have read various parenting books but honestly don’t know what I can do...can anyone help please? Or suggest books or anything that might assist?

Thanks

@corythatwas

I take your last point on board, I do explain to him when/why is behaviour is unacceptable. He cries and says he is sad because DD doesn’t want to play with and I let him know that’s because of his behaviour but yes I see what you mean, I think I need to step in beforehand to stop the play before it gets to that point

I really think you are focusing too much on parenting styles and books. You have to be fluid with these things.

@Notimeforaname

Read up on Aha parenting and then I think you will understand my point

I honestly believe he behaves better at home when he feels connected, loved and respected. I think time outs and naughty steps would only create tensions and ruin our relationship with him
You seem to want to interact with your young child the sane way you would with an adult, say a employee. You want to give him a level of autonomy that allows him to reflect in his behaviour and want to make changes to them because he doesn't want to upset and hurt others.

This does work well with some children, even those as young as yours whose natural instinct is based on wanting to please and receive approval.

It doesn't work at all with children who are naturally headstrong, care more about getting what they want then pleasing others, who get to gratification from getting approval and instead thrive on negative attention. These children get a grill pushing boundaries and desperately need discipline that set these boundaries for them.

Your child is not an adult. He needs you as a parent to guide him on limits and boundaries. He needs to learn to respect and respond to authority.

I'm sorry OP but you are doing a disservice to your child. If you are already scared if tensions with your child at 4, I dare to think what it will be like when he is a teenager. Scared to say and ask anything he doesn't like! Let him totally rule the roost by the time he is 8yo?

[quote Sunbo]@corythatwas

I take your last point on board, I do explain to him when/why is behaviour is unacceptable. He cries and says he is sad because DD doesn’t want to play with and I let him know that’s because of his behaviour but yes I see what you mean, I think I need to step in beforehand to stop the play before it gets to that point[/quote]
That sounds like a good idea. Chances are, he will grow out of it, but for the time being she deserves to know you have her back. (It is also very easy for little girls to internalise that they are there to be understanding and not complain). And if he gets used to being stopped at home, that may make it easier for him to deal with being stopped at school.

You may actually be helped by an approach where you don't explain too much- if you are constantly telling him (as you suggest in an earlier post) he may switch off and he may also get the message that you can't actually stop him (or else why would you have to keep explaining?). In many ways, a more reassuring message for your children is "we have explained why this is wrong, now we will make sure it doesn't happen".

[quote Sunbo]@RonObvious

Thanks your post is very helpful, sounds very similar to my boy. I think he does get overwhelmed easily too and struggles with his emotions. I find it hard to know what to expect from a 4 year old too[/quote]
My understanding is that girls generally develop emotionally at a faster pace than boys, although I'm not sure how true that actually is. However, the way that children react to situations is always seen differently depending on their behaviour. For example, my daughter was hysterical at drop-off every morning. She was also having meltdowns and getting very upset at home. I had to push to get her into a special nuture group to help children adjust to their first year in school. After that, things did get better, but she didn't get access to the group until after Christmas, even though they could see how upset she got (they would have to literally pull her off me) every single morning. At the end of the first full day of Reception (there had also been some half days) with my son, they asked if they could put him into the nurture group, because he had issues with "cooperation". Both of them were reacting for similar reasons, but because his came out as "bad behaviour" it got attention straight away. Anyhow, he's now in Year 2, loves his teacher, his teacher loves him, and all is good. It gets better!

Perhaps positive parenting isn’t working. It’s really really super important for kids to have boundaries. MEGA. If your son isn’t loosing his favourite toy for five minutes (eg) for misbehaving, what are you doing to reinforce the fact that his behaviour is unacceptable instead of trying to distract him? He needs to know when certain behaviours are unacceptable. Trying to distract him to something else clearly isn’t working. Insanity is described as doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different outcome...

He cries and says he is sad because DD doesn’t want to play with
So he's learning that it's all about him and how it affects him. No reflection at all on him hurting his sister?

SEN parents sitting quietly. Knowing.

You sound far too rigid in your approach. What worked for DD clearly isnt working for DS.

My SIL favoured attachment parenting, never telling her DS no, giving no boundaries whatsoever. He is without a doubt the most unpleasant child I have come across. He was constantly disruptive at nursery, hitting others etc, she always had an excuse. In his first week of school last year she was in to see the headmaster regarding his behaviour. He has only got worse as he has got older.

I think you need to adapt your approach and give him some firm boundaries now before it is too late. At 5 I would not be surprised if it was already too late for SIL..

That aha parenting seems to put the child as the centre of the world with everyone pandering to their needs and wishes, ie. The best way to raise a kid to become a totally self absorbed, selfish and narcistic adult.

Read up on Aha parenting and then I think you will understand my point

I've had two mums explain it to me now after I've had to repeatedly tell them their children are interrupting activities and taking time away from kids as well as destructive behaviour.

One complained about me higher up,after class because I asked her daughter to sit out of the next activity as she wouldn't listen.
Mother made a show of herself telling me I 'had no right to parent her child' ...but ..how could I teach the rest of the class????

I know I've only met two parents who use this method so I cant say if this is a coincidence or not but both children were very badly behaved and both children and mothers acted as though social rules didn't apply to them.
The children were wild. Whilst muns stood there being made a fool of.

Very few people liked these children. It was so sad. Even I struggled to enjoy their company and I adore children.

@Bigbigbirfday

“SEN parents sitting quietly. Knowing“

Please can you explain what you mean by your post?

Hold up is his behaviour at home actually an issue or just his behaviour at preschool?

I know you said he tantrums at times and breaks toys etc. Is that a frequent thing though because a lot of 4 years olds would show that behaviour occasionally wouldn’t they. Obviously if that’s daily or it’s is extreme meltdowns that’s another matter.

I guess I’m trying to judge if his behaviour at home is fairly normal but he’s a little lively and the issue is mainly while he is at preschool or if there is a general issue wherever he is.

Are the nursery doing anything proactive? Like do they have a behaviour plan for him or have they looked and what best supports him to behave well and be kind?

Have nursery suggested they think he has any additional needs or behaviours that warrant assessment?

@AIMD

He had a parents evening last term and the pre school didn’t have any concerns about him. They said he can be quite silly at times but the behaviour was nothing more than they have had from other boys too.

It’s the last couple of weeks that they have started reporting the disruptive behaviour and the incident of another child getting hurt. He has increased his days there from beginning of January so is spending more time there. He tells me he likes it there though and plays with friends.

The pre school asked me what I find works at home and I explained my approach which they seemed ok about. They haven’t suggested and additional needs but I have scheduled a call with them so will see what they say.

I haven't read the whole thread but wanted to pop on to suggest you also look into ADHD. If he has a neurological condition then he will need to be supported with very different strategies to learn how to manage his behaviour- the behavior could be impulses that he will find very difficult to control. Of course, he could just be naughty but its important to explore all possible causes to enable you to support him in the best way for him.

I struggle with your approach. Setting limits and boundaries doesn't mean shouting and punishments. I was a primary teacher and managed 30 children without shouting. I'm not bragging when I say they still loved me after I put in place rules and boundaries. Ch need to know where they stand. And the cheeky ones were more entertaining to teach..

Sunbo obviously I don’t know you or your child. But I do know LOADS of parents with children with SEN and their stories started out identical to yours.

Start seeing “naughty” behaviour as an unmet need.

The nursery sound awful.

@ThatGirl82

That’s helpful thanks. Is this something I would need to speak to a doctor about?

@Bigbigbirfday

Thanks for your explanation. Why do the nursery seem awful? I don’t know what I should expect from them?

Yes, you could try dropping your 'positive parenting' approach and actually tell him off... it's clearly not working!

Telling him off does not make you an abusive parent, it makes you a caring one. Children's don't WANT to behave all the time. It's boring for them. They want to do what THEY WANT to do, and it's your job to set boundaries.
Sorry OP but I really think your approach is doing harm here.

The second parent I met who used this approach..almost ruined my life and almost cost me my job,for 'abusing' her child.
I fucking didn't.

Well because they are framing his behaviour as “naughty” and trying to get him to conform to their ideals of how 4 year olds should behave. And for whatever reason he isn’t doing that.

A setting that saw his behaviour as an expression of unmet need/brain wiring would adjust to that, much as you are at home, and would get a different result.

I think you might find “the explosive child” a useful read. Your son isn’t going to wake up one day and think “I’ll behave like they want me to”, he is what he is.

If your financial situation allows I think a session with a paediatric occupational therapist would be really helpful too.

*Sunbo I know that if he was at school you would speak to teacher/the SENCO and they would make a referral, but I'm not sure with preschool. I was diagnosed as an adult and went to my GP to request a referral but with children it is either school or maybe health visitor I think. I saw you mentioned he struggles with his emotions too and that is a big part with ADHD. Feel free to message me if you want more info.

@Bigbigbirfday

Thanks for the info, will look into seeing a therapist