That women should not be banned from Social Media for asking the question ( Thread 4)

[Langrycleg]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:

“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

I think I've pretty open about the fact it was very much the second option. I couldn't be dealing with these meltdowns and entire days ruined simply because my child needed to pee. There comes a point where you just say fuck it. It's not worth the stress and drama

But only the meltdowns of trans children matter. Does matter that other children will be affected by any man who says they are a woman being allowed in single SEX spaces.

I think I've pretty open about the fact it was very much the second option. I couldn't be dealing with these meltdowns and entire days ruined simply because my child needed to pee. There comes a point where you just say fuck it. It's not worth the stress and drama.

I do get that Fasted. But the minimization of others needs and distress is what I have taken issue with.

Fact is also, what does your adult child now believe is also their right when it directly contradicts the purpose of the right?

Third spaces do not exist.

No but they can be campaigned for but you've said you wouldn't do that.

@lifeturnsonadime

Third spaces do not exist.

No but they can be campaigned for but you've said you wouldn't do that.

No, but you're free to do so if you wish. I definitely wouldn't have anything to say if you did.

I think it's telling that men when faced on Social Media with the misogyny of their championing an ideology which would result in males being allowed to share showers with teenage girls, would rather shut down the pesky female pointing this out , rather than facing their bigotry against women.

Fasted isn’t rational about this, but she is a mother who is desperately trying to protect her child. I can understand that. I can also understand how a child who is so convinced that they are the opposite sex will have a massive tantrum about what they perceive as “wrong” facilities.

But to me, this shows clearer than anything that under no circumstances should trans women have positions marked for women. They will not have women’s interest first and they are unlikely to be able to have a rational dialogue about it from a woman’s point of view.

For the avoidance of doubt, they would be great at arguing for trans rights.

Third spaces do not exist.

So you use the space that already exists to meet the needs (not wants) of the biological sex of the person in question, and where that space doesn’t meet their needs, you campaign vociferously for a space that does. Like women have had to do down the centuries. Rather than saying “fuck the girls and women who will be made uncomfortable by this, who will be prevented from using the space they have a legal entitlement to use because there are now people with penises using it, I’m having their space regardless.”

Pure male entitlement, and we can see here how males are socialised and encouraged into it from childhood.

@334bu

I think it's telling that men when faced on Social Media with the misogyny of their championing an ideology which would result in males being allowed to share showers with teenage girls, would rather shut down the pesky female pointing this out , rather than facing their bigotry against women.

Well. It certainly was a group of people born with a penis who were shouting penis at Helen.

@Langrycleg

Dedly so why aren’t these sites also banning the violent rape and death threats regularly posted in response to said dog whistle -concerns-

I would have thought they were. I haven't seen an outright public rape or death threat on twitter. That said, I don't think anyone is being banned for "The Staniland Question" either. I've seen plenty of people tweeting it.

@Winesalot

X post 334bu. This has been playing in my mind all night while reading these posts.

We acknowledge that this decision was done for your own priorities, however, Fasted, to be fair, you have come across as not even acknowledging that women and girls have needs. You disparaged their needs as paranoia which is a complete ‘fuck you’ if you are a PTSD sufferer.

Yes, because I'm answering your questions factually and not getting involved in emotional rhetoric, because that's how we ended up with Sharon the pink painted erection on the last thread.

It's very unlikely they were banned just for asking that question

She was permanently banned, and reinstated, once before, due to a TRA reporting campaign.

I think there should be a trans and women's position, but unfortunately there often isn't and natal women and transwomen get lumped together. As long as that keeps happening, I believe transwoman have a right to stand for those positions. Especially when being voted upon by their peers

The misogyny it takes for adult males to take up positions reserved for females is of the scale. It's already been shown time after time that these males don't give a flying fuck about females, female healthcare, female rights etc. Their only interest is pushing the agenda of other penis owners.
They do not advocate or speak for us.

Scout you are right but it is not just Stonewall who are doing this (although they claim to have influenced the employers of 1/4 of the UK working population with their own version of the law that even though they have always known it was incorrect they are still pushing today), but all major public services- the BBC, the NHS, the police, GEO, CPS, schools, EHRC, Ofcom, all major political parties except for some of the Conservatives.

These organisations not only have a false version and interpretation of the law but they have created an atmosphere where many people feel that they cannot speak up as it can put their job at risk. A family member has been directly affected by this but as a father he can’t speak up to protect his daughters interests because he feels that his job would be at risk.

This is a concerted and extremely widespread effort to prevent people discussing this openly, not because they would be unkind to anyone but because the arguments for abolishing single sex spaces don’t stand up to any scrutiny.

Just a quick reminder that the trans activists monitors on Twitter have posted screenshots of two FWR threads over the weekend which is absolutely their perogative but just so everyone can ensure that they don’t post anything ‘outing’

Yes, because I'm answering your questions factually and not getting involved in emotional rhetoric, because that's how we ended up with Sharon the pink painted erection on the last thread.

I wouldn't, but people could be equally rude and dismissive of your stepchild's feelings, you realise.

Fasted can you see that the broadening of the definition of trans advocated for by Stonewall causes problems for your SD?

I just want to be clear about this.

Can you see that it's including cross dressers and non binary in the definition which opens the floodgates for women to put their foot down on this?

Can you see why the old school transexuals also object to this?

@Whatsnewpussyhat

I think there should be a trans and women's position, but unfortunately there often isn't and natal women and transwomen get lumped together. As long as that keeps happening, I believe transwoman have a right to stand for those positions. Especially when being voted upon by their peers

The misogyny it takes for adult males to take up positions reserved for females is of the scale. It's already been shown time after time that these males don't give a flying fuck about females, female healthcare, female rights etc. Their only interest is pushing the agenda of other penis owners.
They do not advocate or speak for us.

I'm not going to reply to this, I just want to say that I adore your username.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Yes, because I'm answering your questions factually and not getting involved in emotional rhetoric, because that's how we ended up with Sharon the pink painted erection on the last thread.

I wouldn't, but people could be equally rude and dismissive of your stepchild's feelings, you realise.

And they have been.

Our daughters are also being groomed to ignore their instincts and boundaries. Told their discomfort being undressed around males is mean and bigoted.

The 'be kind' bullshit that means removing your boundaries so males don't get hurt feelings.

And they have been.

Not really, not here. They haven't called this person "paranoid" or implied they were hysterical for wanting to use a female only space, as you have.

They haven't said that your child is nameless and faceless and doesn't matter.

Our daughters are also being groomed to ignore their instincts and boundaries. Told their discomfort being undressed around males is mean and bigoted.

The 'be kind' bullshit that means removing your boundaries so males don't get hurt feelings.

Exactly.

Or Fasted put it another way your child had psychological assessment in order to go down the route of transitioning and clearly has gender dysphoria. My children have had medical assessments which have determined they are autistic.

Why is it that transgender is the only 'condition' that is now able to be entirely self determined. Why must we just accept that a person is a woman and can use single sex spaces because they say so without any need to make a single change to their physical appearance.

The people who self ID in this way are not the same as your child or those with genuine dysphoria.

The problem is that we can't tell the difference between the two groups.

That doesn't mean that we should accept both.

Stonewall has done your child, and children like them, no favours.

*I would have thought they were.
I haven't seen an outright public rape or death threat on twitter.
That said, I don't think anyone is being banned for "The Staniland Question" either.
I've seen plenty of people tweeting it.*

Have you read jk Rowling's Twitter feed? Have you not seen the pictures of transwomen with knives threatening Txxxs?

So if she wasn't banned for just asking should males with intact genitalia be allowed to share showers with teenage girls, what was she banned for?

Can I just say thank you Fastedbrownie, for discussing and answering so openly. We have differing viewpoints but it is an extremely hard road you have been down, and a very difficult path for your stepdaughter .

For the thread question, no, I do not think women should be banned from social media for asking whether male bodied individuals should be allowed to access womens` spaces.
I do not think anyone should have these kind of threats levelled at them when they do try to discuss either:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3955276-resource-thread-of-tra-screenshots

Reddit banned the Gender Critical sub, which had 64,000 members saying it was a platform for hate speech, and that they would ban subs which "incite violence or that promote hate based on identity or vulnerability."
Despite that, Reddit have quarantined (so a content warning shows up before you go to the page) but still allow the subs:

r/rapekink

r/rapeconfessions

r/rapefantasy

r/rapeworld

r/rapestories

A whole host of others are also still allowed, I am trying to find the article I read the other day which has a list of them, I will post it when I find it again.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

And they have been.

Not really, not here. They haven't called this person "paranoid" or implied they were hysterical for wanting to use a female only space, as you have.

Why not? I called my sd behaviour as a tween hysterical, because it was hysterical. Paranoid? That's a stretch, but hysterical and illogical? I've used both those words to describe it here because they're an accurate description. That's not the disrespectful behavior I'm referencing, and you know it, but you don t see me carrying on about the constant misgendering, snide belittlement, and fake concern so you can take passive-aggressive digs at my child's body. I've even requested that mnhq ignore it, because this is a factual conversation.