That women should not be banned from Social Media for asking the question ( Thread 4)

[Langrycleg]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:

“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

Have you got any examples of men with intact genitals sharing showers with teenage girls? Is this widespread?

What are school showers like these days, they weren't single cubicles when I was a teen?

For some women it doesn’t even have to happen - just the knowledge that at any moment a male person could come into the changing room where you are undressed makes the facility unusable for some women.

Exactly, this is frequently not acknowledged by trans rights activists.

@PoleToPole

Can I just say thank you Fastedbrownie, for discussing and answering so openly. We have differing viewpoints but it is an extremely hard road you have been down, and a very difficult path for your stepdaughter .

For the thread question, no, I do not think women should be banned from social media for asking whether male bodied individuals should be allowed to access womens` spaces.
I do not think anyone should have these kind of threats levelled at them when they do try to discuss either:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3955276-resource-thread-of-tra-screenshots

Reddit banned the Gender Critical sub, which had 64,000 members saying it was a platform for hate speech, and that they would ban subs which "incite violence or that promote hate based on identity or vulnerability."
Despite that, Reddit have quarantined (so a content warning shows up before you go to the page) but still allow the subs:

r/rapekink

r/rapeconfessions

r/rapefantasy

r/rapeworld

r/rapestories

A whole host of others are also still allowed, I am trying to find the article I read the other day which has a list of them, I will post it when I find it again.

That is pretty shocking how they can justify allowing those subs, where they're talking about actual violent crimes but banning those who in essence are fearful of trying to safe guard women against these types of crimes. It does highlight though just how far women still do need to go to get anywhere close to equality and it's seems like we're going backwards right now

as do almost all lawyers in this field

No.

One-third of my local swimming pools (I miss swimming so much... ) have open communal showers for each sex.

JJ someone with a GRC is not the same as someone who has self ID'd but you know that already,

Women in prison have also had to shower in front of MTF trans people.

Have you got any examples of men with intact genitals sharing showers with teenage girls? Is this widespread?

Otherwise it's a bit of a redundant question isn't it? The vast majority of showers have stalls which ensure privacy and I support that.

To be fair, before she was banned, Helen was asking specifically along the lines of,

"do you think that an adult male with a penis should have the right to undress beside a teenage girl, or any woman, in a women's communal changing room?'

Hence why penis was being yelled (in capitals) at her and she was sexually harassed on on-line.

And we know that there has been at least one well publicised case of a transwoman insisting on being able to use communal female changing spaces. And we know there has been an increase in males accessing the spaces to take video footage.

And we also know that many showers/toilets do not have floor to ceiling walls and doors....

@Langrycleg

I would like to see trans women/people and their allies get support in try to make male sexed spaces safer, so they will stop badgering us. Surely there are some men out there who would support that ? Why isn’t this happening. I could see the “old style” group leading the younger ones into male spaces and asking for acceptance there. Well, I sort of can see it....

Yeah trans, why don't you just get men to stop raping people. Just ask nicely and male violence will totes disappear. If it was that easy none of this would be such a problem would it?

As has been said before, there are male bodied people who will claim to be transgender to gain access to womens spaces. This trans activist is enthusiastically campaigning for trans women to be able to use womens toilets, showers and other spaces. The same trans activist convicted of raping a disabled 20 year old woman before she identified as a man.

www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-proponent-of-mixed-sex-showers-locker-rooms-raped-deaf-woman-johanna-wolf/

How many women are you happily to exclude ?

Bearing in mind that people born male who choose to use female spaces as their preferred space have their sex based space in addition to fall back on.

Females excluded by male people turning single sex spaces mixed sex have nowhere else to go.

When female sex based spaces stop serving all female people then they've ceased to do their designed job. That's their brief, first and foremost. A national campaign for third spaces would have a lot of support, there are some very well funded charities with the ear of government, this would be something easy to do. (Much easier than it was for disabled people to get accesible toilets.)

The male people not wanting to use male sex based spaces have other ways in which their needs can be met without sacrificing female single sex spaces to them.

The females displaced by male people have no other alternative. Do they? If we campaign for third spaces for female people to keep as single sex spaces what is the immediate and obvious thing that come from male born people?

@PotholeParadies

One-third of my local swimming pools (I miss swimming so much... ) have open communal showers for each sex.

And before someone tries to pull the same stunt on me as they did on Helen, I miss swimming because I miss swimming, not because I miss changing rooms. Swimming pools are shut 'cos Covid. It's a cause for sadness.

@334bu

*Neither her do I think it's acceptable for high profile campaigners to wind up their audience of largely far/alt right followers by telling the men who carry guns to start using women's toilets to protect them from the trans - something which is breath-takingly irresponsible given recent events in the states and which few on here had the basic decency to condemn.*

Nor are the pictures of people pointing guns and knives on Twitter any less unacceptable.

However, Helen Stanislaus did not threaten anyone, she merely asked a question and yet she was banned from Twitter.
Do you consider her question as offensive as threats of violence?

I don't consider her question offensive and I have no idea why she was banned. Perhaps it was mass reporting that triggered an algorithm and she will be reinstated, perhaps she had a load of socks on the go we don't know about, perhaps she engaged in targetted harassment or hateful conduct.

When people are permabanned from twitter it's usually for a pattern of behaviour not one single tweet. Without having access to her tweets, DMs, any other accounts etc it's impossible to verify why it happened.

@borntobequiet

Plenty of subs that would be deemed actively "misogynist" have been banned, which why GC has resorted to listing a bunch of fetish subs. The ones actively politically advocating for discrimination against women are gone.

So if rape is a fetish it’s OK then? And not in the least misogynistic? Goodness me.

Well, if someone writes about rape porn being ok if it is 'ethical' in Teen Vogue this month, you know that the answer you get might not be the obvious one.

Any sub reddit that advocates harm to women and girls including these 'rape kink' Reddits should be banned. There is no rape fantasy that is acceptable on these sites because they are active in the result of harm. And, no. Just because there are laws supposed to prevent violence towards women and children, it is completely failing in its protection at this time.

don't consider her question offensive and I have no idea why she was banned. Perhaps it was mass reporting that triggered an algorithm and she will be reinstated

Which has already happened to her before.

I've followed her for years, she's said nothing that merits banning. She was banned because this question is inconvenient to TRAs and makes woke men squirm. Maybe also the association with Graham Linehan whose podcast she has appeared on many times. It has trended on Twitter more than once. This is targeted.

jj1968

334bu
jj1968

Do you agree that male people with intact genitalia should not be allowed to share showers with teenage girls and do you also believe that no woman should be barred from Twitter for asking that question?
Have you got any examples of men with intact genitals sharing showers with teenage girls? Is this widespread?

Haha! I've personally never been attacked by a red headed gemini in a checked shirt either. But I'm not giving them a pass because it's not 'widespread'.

It's all males, jj. Not the ones you cherry pick on women's behalf.

Otherwise it's a bit of a redundant question isn't it? The vast majority of showers have stalls which ensure privacy and I support that. I don't think teenagers should be exposed to any adult's genitals whatever their sex. I also don't think people should be banned from social media for asking it though.

Oh, and every gym I've been a member of has a communal changing room. Naked women is par. I don't need you to ban that on behalf of women either, just to stop sex segregation.

Yeah trans, why don't you just get men to stop raping people. Just ask nicely and male violence will totes disappear. If it was that easy none of this would be such a problem would it?

It would be a start to have transpeople stop threatening women online then wouldn't it. I know you have said you disagree with their behaviour, but what action is being taken to address this by other transpeople?

Particularly when you have prominent activists sexually harassing someone who is asking the question that is the subject of this thread. Their followers just let them do it and watched it happen. And again jj an activist you obviously think is relevant was one of the ringleaders.

A bit off topic but Joanna Cherry has been removed from the front bench of the SNP. She nor the SNP have yet to state why but it is likely to be that she has talked about the fact that women's rights are threatened by trans ideology openly.

This at a time when if the SNP were unified they might well be in a position to gain independence for Scotland.

It beggars belief.

Yeah trans, why don't you just get men to stop raping people

Unfortunately some of the people doing the raping and sexual assaulting are transwomen .
Glad you agree that Helen should not have been banned but you haven't answered her question.
Yes let males share showers with girls?
No no way males are responsible for 99% of all sexual assaults?

Which is your answer?

@borntobequiet

Plenty of subs that would be deemed actively "misogynist" have been banned, which why GC has resorted to listing a bunch of fetish subs. The ones actively politically advocating for discrimination against women are gone.

So if rape is a fetish it’s OK then? And not in the least misogynistic? Goodness me.

I'm not saying that, just that fetish subs are not banned. Subs rooted in social and political discrimination against and hatred of minority groups are banned.

Oh, and every gym I've been a member of has a communal changing room.

I think there is a local guide camp site that also has communal changing rooms for different activities.

All those minimising the potential of this question, seem to be rather misinformed about how common they actually are.

I'm not saying that, just that fetish subs are not banned

So, just SOME of the subs rooted in harming women and girls have been banned.

All those minimising the potential of this question, seem to be rather misinformed about how common they actually are.

They don't care becausecit doesn't suit their agenda

@334bu

They don't care becausecit doesn't suit their agenda

quite.

Just like the wriggle to stating that we should all be campaigning for no more communal changing rooms was very common. And the question often remained stubbornly unanswered because it would highlight so much.