Who should pay?

[Fudgewhizz]

Scenario: Sibling A lent Sibling B a car seat (a good one) to help them out when they had a baby, as money was tight. It was made clear that they would need it back when they had another child.

Sibling A had another child and asked for car seat back, giving several months' notice (obviously). Sibling B had been using seat for 18 months by this point. Covid hit, car seat couldn't be returned in person so needed to be couriered.

It took Sibling B another six months to get round to sending the seat, citing not having found a replacement seat / big enough box to send in / too expensive to send / too busy. Finally got round to sending it (had had it two years). In the meantime, Sibling A has been using car seat that is about to expire (apparently they have a shelf life, after which time the plastic degrades) and will soon be outgrown.

Car seat arrived filthy, with part of the harness worn away due to incorrect usage (twisted belt causing friction in the wrong place so badly fraying), and inadequately packed. Has clearly been chucked around by couriers - standard, and should have been packed better as this is to be expected. Had no padding round it and had obviously been rattling round in the box. Dirt and potentially harness could have been resolved (if harnesses available as a spare part), seat being thrown around cannot as there's no telling what unseen damage has been done (which is why they advise to replace seat if it's been in even a minor accident).

Sibling B is refusing to contribute at all to cost of new seat, citing money issues and that it's not their responsibility at all, and they've already spent money sending it back. Sibling A also has money issues and can't really afford to replace a seat that they were counting on using and would have been able to had it been packed properly (or if they'd not lent it in the first place - lesson learned there).

I mean, it's obvious which sibling I am, but who is right? Who should have paid for sending it back, and should sibling B offer to contribute to a new seat? Wear and tear and dirt fair enough, seat unusable I think not so much.

@Mammaaof why are you so nasty though? Goodness! How's this suggestion in the least bit helpful?

Sibling A.

You lend stuff like that knowing it may not last another child.

@Fudgewhizz but your brother wanted the car seat 2 years ago, and at that time you told him you wanted it back for your next child, so clearly didn't plan to pay for a new one even before the pandemic.

Blimey I do wonder what sort of car seats some posters have experience of! Ours are 5 years old and immaculate. I recently washed the covers and they look good as new. Sent infant car seat to a friend, once the covers were washed it looked as new, if slightly faded from the sun. Packaged securely and sent by courier (£26), it arrived in perfect condition.
Most modern car seats are manufactured to last 10 years so it is sensible to think one would last that long.
One friend even managed to borrow an infant car seat off a friend for all of her 3 children, returning it in between for friend's latest arrivals. Again no significant damage or staining.
It's a real shame your brother has behaved like this. I would chalk it up to experience, knowing you were the better person, see if local friends have any car seats about to be outgrown that you could have, as it sounds like you're on a hiding to nothing with this topic with your brother. I can't pretend it wouldn't affect my interactions with said brother in future and my willingness to ever help them again though...

AStudyinPink

Only a wipe down though, not a proper machine wash as it can compromise the straps. If OP had put it up in the loft there's every chance it would have gone manky anyway. Baby clothes are easy to vacuum bag and store but car seats are much more difficult to store without risking mould etc. What would OP have done if she had bought it down from the loft only to find mould on it? It's a £70 car seat, buy a new one! Obviously if OP had no choice in getting pregnant it's a different story but if you can't afford a basic new car seat, you shouldn't be planning a baby.

Why not buy a replacement cover and straps off eBay or similar?

I’m sure if it was in a box it’ll be fine (if you’re that set on using it).

Lesson learnt I hope. Don’t lend out things that small children use if you want to use it yourself guaranteed in the future.

The pressure of keeping those items clean, unworn, tidy is pretty hard. I think both sides could have helped out a little (splitting the cost of couriering would have been a nice thing as siblings to do for example - making sure cost of packaging was priority and using a good reputable courier).

Honestly I think both have responsibility but this is why when renting something privately there is a contract. To manage expectations and outline responsibility between parties

Let it go.
I’d put it down to mix of selfish sibling (and just be less ready to loan things again but not fall out over it) and Covid crap (delay and need to courier etc ).
Let it go. File info about sibling away in that ‘sibling folder’ we’ve all got on the go

How much did sibling pay to courier it?

And how much are you going on about it to your brother?

B sounds horrible. I hope you’ve learned never to lend your stuff op. I look after my things, as does dh and dd. Dd is already learning some people are not like this and take advantage. Think kids, who don’t want to return her clothes, she lent and continue to wear them.

What would OP have done if she had bought it down from the loft only to find mould on it? It's a £70 car seat, buy a new one! Obviously if OP had no choice in getting pregnant it's a different story but if you can't afford a basic new car seat, you shouldn't be planning a baby.

But it doesn’t have mould on, it’s just a bit dirty.

Agree with most of the posters. On paper of course yanbu but real life says no...your expectations were too high.

God what a pain in the arse to have to organise a courier for a bashed up car seat. He would’ve known it was at the end of its life but didn’t like to say because the item was ‘borrowed’. I don’t expect he thought you’d ever insist on having it back. Most people would have written it off.

After 2 years I wouldn't have expected to be able to use the seat again. Unfortunately, not everyone is as careful as you would hope. After B delaying sending it back for 6 months, I would have assumed there was a problem with it and the delay was them hoping I would give up and buy another one in the meantime.

I feel like I've stepped into a parallel universe sometimes when I come on mumsnet.

Yes of course in hindsight you've learned the valuable "don't lend stuff you can afford to never get back" lesson, but that's hardly helpful now.

Your brother is being a dick. If you borrow something, you look after it. When the owner asks for it back, you give it back. You make sure it's clean and in good nick. If you're posting it, you make sure it's posted properly packed. If it somehow breaks or gets damaged in your care, you pay for it, or at least apologise and go halves or something if you're struggling with money etc.

How do people not get this...?

I cannot believe the nasty responses the OP is getting. Just so unnecessary and horrible. Bloody hell, the world is shit enough at the moment. Do we really need to stick the boot in and be nasty when someone just asks for opinions. It is possible to disagree with someone without name calling and mean. Empathy costs nothing. The op isn't the villain in the piece. She tried to do a nice thing for her brother, he's been shitty and now she's worrying as she's going to have to spend money she hasn't budgeted for to replace something she shouldn't need to replace. I really don't get the hate. Whatever you views on car seats etc, you can try and offer advice in a way that actually engages discussion instead of attacking.

Seriously, wtf is wrong with people!

I'd let it go and learn the lesson, which is never loan again.

I would never put DC in an old car seat. We did lots of second hand things, but I insisted on new car seats. It's very important.

It probably cost at least £25 to courier it. He would have been better off just giving you £25 and keeping the seat. But it's easy to say that with hindsight.

I wouldn't have lent it in the first place but B is out of line. They should have cleaned it thoroughly before returning it and replaced any broken parts. An apology would go a long way and the money wasted on sending it would have been better contributed to a new seat.

A lesson has been learnt here op.

I think I’m a bit different to other posters, I have a car seat that’s 5 years old and still looks in good condition. I make sure I clean / hoover it and it’s well looked after. I would be pretty annoyed if I lent someone something and they didnt look after it to the same level as me. Guess that’s why I stopped lending things unless I really trusted the person or put expectations in place first.

I don't know what people on here do with their car seats?! DD2 is using the infant carrier we had for DD1, it's still in good condition and if we were planning another I'd certainly be planning on using it again. As it stands, I'll be offering it to my sister for when she visits our mum. DD1 has been using her car seat for two years now and it's immaculate, and will be passed to DD2 when she outgrows the infant carrier.

There is absolutely no need to buy a new seat for each child if you know the seat hasn't been in an accident, hasn't been dropped and has been appropriately stopped.

I don't see why a car seat would be showing major signs of wear and tear unless you have a kid with bad travel sickness, and even then the covers can be washed.

I wouldn't have been happy about shipping a car seat in anything other than the original packaging so it was adequately protected, so I think that's the point at which you should've agreed a plan with your brother. But I don't think it's unreasonable at all to expect it to have been in decent condition before it went in the courier box.

And all of the posters telling OP to just buy a new seat when she's made it clear that's not a financially easy option just smacks of the good old MN "Just use your other money".

Borrowing and lending baby stuff is a nightmare. YANBU, but my experience is don’t lend anything you want back, and don’t borrow anything someone else wants back. (Despite my best efforts I now have a Tripp trap highchair which is useless to me due to its missing footrest and straps. But I can’t chuck it because it’s “on loan” even though I don’t bloody want it!)

[quote Mammaaof]@Fudgewhizz most think your wrong and I think it's disgusting to reuse a car seat on a third child. You clearly couldn't afford another child as your scrounging a bloody car seat and causing arguments, your brother is probably sick of your moaning. Buy a bloody new car seat and a safe one at that!![/quote]
Woahhhh why are you so angry about a situation hat has no bearing on your life what so ever 😂.

Mumsnet clearly went bizarre last night. This is one of those weird threads that pop up from time to time when the first few posters decide YABU and everyone else jumps on the bandwagon and gets a kick out of being a dick from behind a screen.

There’s this amazing contraption called a washing machine where if you put materials, say the padding from a car seat, they come out clean!

If the OP is unreasonable for expecting a useable car seat back then surely the brother is also unreasonable for “scrounging” a second hand car seat (and I’m not sure how the OP can scrounge her own car seat), having a child when they could at afford it, using a car seat in a damaged condition etc etc.

OP YANBU but I think you might just have to cut your losses unfortunately and remember never to lend your brother anything again.

@misskatamari well said! It’s just good manners right?! If I borrow something I make sure I clean it before handing back and if there is any damage I would offer to fix / replace / go half’s etc

Your brother is in the wrong. If you accept a loan on the understanding the other person wants the item baxk then you take good care of it and return it when asked for.

I agree with PP that he likely just chucked it in the box as an act of petty spite. It really isn’t hard to courier an item, it’s one of the lockdown growth industries and they even come and pick up from your house if you need them to.

Is your bro usually a dick?

“How do people not get this...?”

I think it’s because most people here are going by their experience of what actually happens in the physical world...and not by theory or ideals.

Baby stuff gets hammered. Fact. If you don’t want your stuff to get hammered, don’t give it to someone five hours away to use on a daily basis for two years and expect it back in tip top condition. Like it or not, that’s life.

We all get it...why don’t you?

I will guarantee almost everyone who has older kids has had the experience of lending something and getting it back in less than pristine condition and feeling annoyed. Or, as in my case, not getting it back at all.

It’s a lesson learnt.

It’s strange to me that the op has had it happen and hasn’t learnt the lesson. That’s the odd thing to me.