to think that the effect on children's mental health is exaggerated?

[SmudgeButt]

Look I have no doubt that lots of kids are missing their friends, school, grandparents. And all of these things will effect their development and mental health. But is it really that bad a situation compared to other things in the past?? Or is it just that we talk about it a whole nauseatingly more?

I'm thinking that the current situation isn't a patch on the effect of living in a country that's at war - thinking back to WW2 and the effect of being suddenly shipped off to strangers in the countryside or even to a different country. Thinking of those children in Europe who suddenly had to fend for themselves in Jewish ghettos or concentration camps.

People that survived (yes a lot didn't as they were murdered) no doubt had lifetime impacts but so many of their children say "dad was always cheerful, never talked about what happened".

AIBU to think that in a few years kids of today will say "wow, that was weird and I'm glad it's over, now let's get one with life" ?

In all the other situations, children could still play with their friends

My Nan was shipped away from her family and friends when she was young during the war. So in that situation, for many, many it was worse.

That's not saying the kids now are feeling it's terrible at the moment.

@thecatfromjapan

Ii think that's the crux of the issue, Krook - years of underfunding means there is very little support now. The system was already stretched and certainly doesn't have the bandwidth to cope with this additional stress.

I don't think the solution to any of societies problems is to throw more and more money at minority interests. All that does in foster division, resentment and antagonism in society. Yes it is unfortunate for those who believe the minority concern they wish to be addressed at any one time is more important than all others, and yes they have a right to scream and shout and publicise their particular bailiwicks. But in order for society to remain cohesive, IMO, you have to throw the bulk of the capital at the bulk of the problems and not spread it evenly across society.

Mental health comes under health.

Health isn't a minority concern.

The NHS is there to meet health needs.

So, for example, 1:15 men and 1:18 women may develop bowel cancer.

They are in the minority - most people won't develop bowel cancer.

But the NHS treats bowel cancer nonetheless

Mental health should be no different, with the service being funded to meet the need.

I'm pretty sure that this thread is either seeded or infested with the ill-intentioned now.

@ReceptacleForTheRespectable

And as for the OP, I'm staggered that she seems to think that someone being outwardly cheerful and not talking about their childhood means they can't have been very traumatised.

Must admit that's amazed me too. There have been a few comments in similar veins on this thread.

Mental health is not a minority concern.

If a child is unwell, I mean, when their life is in immediate danger, is it usual to send them home from hospital with a list of helpful websites and a 6 month wait for an appointment to start thinking about possible treatment?

No, but this is exactly what happens when your child is actively suicidal.

[quote ElliFAntspoo]@ancientgran - In all likelihood this is a seeded thread upon which a journalist is building their 'opinion piece'. The intent to to create an adversarial environment and gather watch words and catchphrases. It works well and saves on a lot of research.[/quote]
Thanks for the information, I didn't realise that.

@GeordieGreigsButtButtZoom

Don't know what Fortnite is, but child psychologists only know what they've been taught at uni' and what they've read in books, Half of them don't even have kids. I won't invest my belief system in someone else's apparent expertise with evidence of said expertise. Employment by the NHS does not make someone capable let alone an expert.

Please stop. I am embarrassed for you. I can't even bring myself to quote the glorious second paragraph. Please stop. Books are good. Practical medical experience is good. Staying abreast of research in peer-reviewed journals is good. You do not know that 50% of child psychologists don't have children and even if that were true, it still wouldn't mean they can't be good at what they do, it's a different role to parenting. It would take ten seconds to Google what Fortnite is. "I won't invest my belief system in someone else's apparent expertise with evidence of said expertise" is literally you stating your intention to remain ignorant even when someone can actually prove that they know more than you do.

Please stop, I beg you.

Quite. Well said.
As a clinical psychologist I find it insulting for someone to suggest we "only know what we read in books". We are trained to apply clinical skills from an up to date evidence base, whilst also being required to conduct our own PhD level research to inform our clinical practice. Training requires years of "on the job" clinical practice and the rigorous assessment of your clinical work via observation and case studies before you can qualify. And after qualification, you are required to keep your clinical skills and knowledge up to date with regular appraisal and assessment. Basically, much like the training as a medical doctor.
Would this person be so quick to dismiss a medic's opinion, I wonder, if they required life saving treatment, on the basis that "doctors only know what they've read in books"?
It's an ill-informed statement that shows no understanding of the clinical psychology training route or requirements.
I'd also love to know how having or not having children oneself is remotely relevant to your competence as a psychologist. Again, would you be less willing to have a paediatrician treat your own child if they themselves were childless? Why would they need to have children to know and understand how to apply the theories of medicine?

That's very true and you are right it's not a mental health 'issue' but this is very new behaviour for my child and just to illustrate that the situation is having an affect on even the most happy-go-lucky
Of course it does, any changes have affect in people. If anything, it's a good thing that kids are being impacted, it shows the positive impact that schooling has on them. Hopefully many kids will feel much more positive about going to school when the crisis is over.

My point is that affect doesn't have to mean pathological nor concerning.

The more this goes on the more it reads like parents unable to cope with changes in their children that they had not considered or foreseen. Given the lockdowns around the world are unprecedented, I can understand it not having occurred to some parents that a catastrophic wold changing pandemic might impact on their children's personalities, and I can also understand that they doggedly continue with what worked before (school, home school, routine) as being the best course of action. Why I have no idea, but it seems a reasonable course if someone can think of nothing else to do.

I think when a thread reaches the inevitable deteriorations to comparing ourselves to Nazi Germany, that pretty much explains that the thread is dead. Adios.

Wow, the reference to the Holocaust was deleted quickly. Well done MN.

And as for the OP, I'm staggered that she seems to think that someone being outwardly cheerful and not talking about their childhood means they can't have been very traumatised.

This is what struck me the most too. And then backing up her point by saying she’s chatted to some of them and they seemed fine 😂

Something interesting is that ‘the youth of today’ (who are, according to the OP, less resilient than previous generations) are far better behaved than previous generations, statistically speaking. They commit less crime, they drink and smoke less, there are fewer teenage pregnancies and they’re more likely to finish school.

So it doesn’t seem to me that the ‘resilience’ OP thinks is such a great quality actually served previous generations all that well.

@ElliFAntspoo

The more this goes on the more it reads like parents unable to cope with changes in their children that they had not considered or foreseen. Given the lockdowns around the world are unprecedented, I can understand it not having occurred to some parents that a catastrophic wold changing pandemic might impact on their children's personalities, and I can also understand that they doggedly continue with what worked before (school, home school, routine) as being the best course of action. Why I have no idea, but it seems a reasonable course if someone can think of nothing else to do.

I think when a thread reaches the inevitable deteriorations to comparing ourselves to Nazi Germany, that pretty much explains that the thread is dead. Adios.

Er... the OP literally made the comparison the WW2 / concentration camps in the very first post of this thread. Why did you post on it then?

Fancy not factoring in a pandemic. Pretty massive oversight!

I’m just working on my spreadsheet for nuclear war, which I’m factoring in because I’m very clever.

Why do people always compare this pandemic to the war. So irritating.
You can only go by your own experience, perspective doesn’t always help.

@Buddytheelf85

Something interesting is that ‘the youth of today’ (who are, according to the OP, less resilient than previous generations) are far better behaved than previous generations, statistically speaking. They commit less crime, they drink and smoke less, there are fewer teenage pregnancies and they’re more likely to finish school.

So it doesn’t seem to me that the ‘resilience’ OP thinks is such a great quality actually served previous generations all that well.

Knife crime alone would seem to say differently, as would drug usage, so maybe you're talking about rurally?

@Chailatteplease

Why do people always compare this pandemic to the war. So irritating. You can only go by your own experience, perspective doesn’t always help.

Cos they’re idiots.

@CountessFrog

Fancy not factoring in a pandemic. Pretty massive oversight!

I’m just working on my spreadsheet for nuclear war, which I’m factoring in because I’m very clever.

ROFLMAO.

Surely in February of last year, when you saw China lock down an area the size of Europe, it must have crossed your mind that there may have been a reason for it? I remember thinking, Wow! They must be really scared of something. What if it spreads outside of China?

Then when cases started popping up in Italy, Spain and the south of England, you must have, just for a second, remembered what was happening in China before dismissing it from your mind.

The when they announced locking down the whole of the UK 'for three weeks', and you already knew that China had been locked down for going on a month and a half... are you saying not once did you even think, Shit, how might this affect my kids?

I damn well did. Are you seriously saying you didn't?

I thought, Fuck, they're gonna get bored. I bought board games, I bought art supplies, a planned how we might grow things in window boxes. I installed Zoom on my Kindle. I started looking at home school websites. I started filtering the information they were getting about what was happening. I started to soften 'the picture' they received about how fucked up things were gonna get. I made sure they weren't around when we watched the news.

I'm not being unreasonable is questioning how people did not expect a world changing event to impact their children's personalities.

'knife crime' records only go back ten years unless you've got info from somewhere I've missed. No doubt they've increased a bit in that time but no evidence to compare to even 1 previous generation.

Knife crime alone would seem to say differently, as would drug usage, so maybe you're talking about rurally?

Nope. Overall there’s been a significant drop in the number of youth offenders over the last 10 years. Offending patterns change and certain types of crime have increased. But overall, the figures from the Youth Justice Board indicate a substantial drop in young offending.

The fall in teenage pregnancies and reduction in alcohol consumption and tobacco consumption have been well-documented.

If that’s the price of the loss of this generation’s ‘resilience’, I for one will certainly take it.

In February and March yes I was aware of what was happening and the possibility of it coming over here, but my priority wasnt getting board games and craft projects (although in fairness we are crafters so my own stuff probably would rival hobbycraft) but worrying about ensuring we had access to money to get food in case we lost our jobs. Then by April we were both furloughed so were grateful to have saved extra cash to help with that.

You are missing what life is like for a lot of people. Many live paycheque to paycheque so can't just buy stuff in case there was a pandemic. We have also had the scaremongering from the press before so some might have just thought nothing will come of this. Let's be honest our own government were not exactly in pandemic mode. It's taken them 10 months to think closing the borders would be a good idea.

And for many, including my own child, board games and craft projects were not the issue - being isolated from their peers was. For pre teens zoom etc just doesn't come close to actual interaction. Even adults got fed up of zoom quickly. The difference this time around for my own child is night and day - as he can still see his friends.

Not all families have the it equipment to have regular zoom meetings. It's one of the big problems with online schooling - it's just not available to all, whether it be lack of equipment or poor internet. Again not everyone lives in an area with fast reliable internet.

@montysma1

My kids are having an utter blast. They have taught themselves to bake, improved musical instrument playing x 1000, read countless books, are fit as fleas having built circuit courses in the garden, have built a tree house, are in the garden until dragged indoors even in bad weather, speak to friends every day. In the lovely weather during first lock down my husband put a tent up and he and they slept out every night for weeks, trooping in for breakfast in the morning. They will be gutted to go back to school and I am enjoying it too. We just resolved to be positive about it and the kids have taken their cue from that.

Lol. Mine have learned to play drums on their bed frames, and build circuit courses around the house. Its driving me nuts.

I did all that stuff, yes.

I went to the range and bought all manner of crap art supplies. I bought an ice cream maker, panini maker, you name it.

Funnily enough, it hasn’t been enough for my kids not to have suffered. There’s only so many pebbles a teenager will paint.

More pressingly, what ARE you all doing about the nuclear war scenario? I’m hoping to avert any decline in my children’s mental health with the purchase of a Spirograph and pasta attachment for my kitchen aid.

See, clever.

@tigger1001

In February and March yes I was aware of what was happening and the possibility of it coming over here, but my priority wasnt getting board games and craft projects (although in fairness we are crafters so my own stuff probably would rival hobbycraft) but worrying about ensuring we had access to money to get food in case we lost our jobs. Then by April we were both furloughed so were grateful to have saved extra cash to help with that.

You are missing what life is like for a lot of people. Many live paycheque to paycheque so can't just buy stuff in case there was a pandemic. We have also had the scaremongering from the press before so some might have just thought nothing will come of this. Let's be honest our own government were not exactly in pandemic mode. It's taken them 10 months to think closing the borders would be a good idea.

And for many, including my own child, board games and craft projects were not the issue - being isolated from their peers was. For pre teens zoom etc just doesn't come close to actual interaction. Even adults got fed up of zoom quickly. The difference this time around for my own child is night and day - as he can still see his friends.

Not all families have the it equipment to have regular zoom meetings. It's one of the big problems with online schooling - it's just not available to all, whether it be lack of equipment or poor internet. Again not everyone lives in an area with fast reliable internet.

although in fairness we are crafters so my own stuff probably would rival hobbycraft Lucky you. I wish.

but worrying about ensuring we had access to money to get food in case we lost our jobs.
Been there. The weekend before lockdown I was town pawning stuff. .

Then by April we were both furloughed so were grateful to have saved extra cash to help with that. Yep. Didn't get back to work until September. Lucky so far this time round. But really glad for the little safety net in case we need it.

Completely agree with the rest of what you've said. At my end we don't have broadband, only copper wire, so internet is as slow as F, drops frames when you do Zoom, and the kids never got the video calling thing even with grandparents etc. They are just not interested, cos its not the same. Bought a Kindle for them for Xmas, but would have preferred what I have pawned TBH. That said, all safe and sound, and for the most part in good health, so can't complain.

Would have loved to have had a years notice, but like everyone I only saw what was happening in February. My focus was on the important things like family safety, food security, and money just in case (we rent.) A lot of people live in their own houses with gardens, savings, job security, and no end of things many do not have. Yet they claim it was all a surprise to them that such changes in their children could occur.