In-laws have declined the vaccine... AIBU?

[HotGlueGun]

So my in-laws (early 70s) have declined to have the vaccine. They are in our childcare bubble and so we see them regularly. They also ask us to do their shopping. WIBU to a) stop doing their shopping for them and b) reduce/ stop their contact with the kids? I'm really cross about but appreciate that they have free will and it's their choice. But resent having to do shopping for them... it's like they are happy for us to be at risk and aren't prepared to take reasonable steps to reduce their vulnerability and eliminate the risk for themselves/ the wider community.

@Topsyturveymam

My thoughts exactly. Do they think we should stay in lockdown permanently? Or are they simply banking on enough other people having the vaccine for this not to be necessary?

Please tell them that no one person is safe until we are all safe and that their concerns, whilst probably real to them , are not worth risking all the good work that we have all done so far. Get them some information, maybe pop into your surgery to get some leaflets. Do anything you can to get them vaccinated. Good luck.

They shouldn't be doing anything different whether or not they have been vaccinated. Its up to you what you do, same as its up to them what they do. If it was my in laws, both dead now, I would be talking to them to try to persuade them making it clear that its because I love them and I worry about them. As I understand it, the risk with the children is more that the children will make them ill rather than the other way around...and I'd still do the shopping.

Not sure how them being, or not being, vaccinated affects you and your kids? Isn’t the general consensus that you can still transmit the virus post-imm anyway? So, sounds like you just don’t want to shop for them and you’re even looking for an excuse to cut their contact with their grandchildren. Sounds like toxic DIL behaviour to me.

I understand how it’s a personal choice but I don’t think it’s fair if I was a nurse treating someone who had declined the vaccine. Putting mine and my families health at risk to save their life.

Because when you sign up to be a nurse you understand you are signing up to work with certain professional standards, one of which is to respect patient autonomy. It’s not for you to say what interventions people must accept.

If you make them do their own shopping you’ll be increasing their exposure.
There’s no real evidence that the vaccine works in the elderly and there have been a lot of deaths and even positive tests after receiving the vaccine. I would let them make their own decision in which it seems they have decided that the risks outweigh the benefits. And if you can help them so that they don’t to have much contact outside your bubble that would be great wouldn’t it.

No nurse would ever refuse to treat. I think this pandemic has seen the duty and care from the nursing profession and others. However, refusing to take the vaccine will affect others. Its selfish.

Why should you put yourself at risk? Your husband could do their shopping for them online and have it delivered.
Then you could explain that you are not comfortable with their decision not to vaccinate.
Then procrastinate them seeing the children. They might get the message.

@Inwiththenew

If you make them do their own shopping you’ll be increasing their exposure. There’s no real evidence that the vaccine works in the elderly and there have been a lot of deaths and even positive tests after receiving the vaccine. I would let them make their own decision in which it seems they have decided that the risks outweigh the benefits. And if you can help them so that they don’t to have much contact outside your bubble that would be great wouldn’t it.

This is wrong. Pfizer definitely works. AZ also works but the testing didn’t statistically prove it to the German regulators satisfaction. It was proven to the European Regulator’s satisfaction.

The amount of misinformation on these threads is ridiculous and dangerous.

After the vaccines are out i woukd limit kids visits.

Have you parents given the normal pathetic excuses for not taking it.

@AStudyinPink

I understand how it’s a personal choice but I don’t think it’s fair if I was a nurse treating someone who had declined the vaccine. Putting mine and my families health at risk to save their life.

Because when you sign up to be a nurse you understand you are signing up to work with certain professional standards, one of which is to respect patient autonomy. It’s not for you to say what interventions people must accept.

A vaccine is preventative.

It would save the NHS having to treat you in ICU.

But it’s fine. You do what you want because when the shit hits the fan the NHS will pick up the pieces.

[quote HotGlueGun]@MyDcAreMarvel show me the legislation and how it's being abused. You won't be able to [/quote]
You're not supposed to be mixing households.

[quote HotGlueGun]@TatianaBis it's not irrelevant though.... that's how she gives her notions credence. As though she has the inside story because she used to work for one of the companies manufacturing the vaccine.

And yes my husband does need the break from time to time.... but the ILs never have both kids at the same time. They will have the 18m old for a few hours so that my husband can homeschool my son. Or they will have the 6 year old so that my husband can spend some time with our toddler or get jobs done. It's not like we are dumping the kids and running so that we can put our feet up. Yes we could manage without the childcare but it would be to the detriment of each of our kids. Appreciate that's not "essential" in the way that providing childcare for 2 x working parents is but with the age difference in our children, it is difficult for one person (DH) to meet both of their needs on his own whilst I work. [/quote]
What do you think everyone is having to do...!???? Everyone is finding home schooling children and caring for little ones and working from home challenging but we ARE NOT ALLOWED TO MIX HOUSEHOLDS.
I wish my child could nip up the road to see their grandparents once a week so I could get on with chores but this is breaking lock down rules. You're not a special case ffs

Do people who have declined the vaccine but then develop the disease think they should be entitled to treatment? Oh I get it. They will decline treatment too........

@nannawend

Do people who have declined the vaccine but then develop the disease think they should be entitled to treatment? Oh I get it. They will decline treatment too........

One hopes. But the selfish never like to bear the consequences of their selfishness.

But it’s fine. You do what you want because when the shit hits the fan the NHS will pick up the pieces.

I will do what I want, as I have an absolute m right to. In my case I’ll get the vaccine.

Do people who have declined the vaccine but then develop the disease think they should be entitled to treatment? Oh I get it. They will decline treatment too.......

Of course they are entitled to treatment. You are not in charge of their healthcare. They are.

People should have autonomy to make an informal choice.
In this case, they sound like they are not making a fully informed choice. Get them some good leaflets and tell them you’re worried about their vulnerability.

@AStudyinPink

Do people who have declined the vaccine but then develop the disease think they should be entitled to treatment? Oh I get it. They will decline treatment too.......

Of course they are entitled to treatment. You are not in charge of their healthcare. They are.

It’s a good thing those people have rights without needing to take any responsibility.

there have been a lot of deaths and even positive tests after receiving the vaccine

Yeah, because they caught it before the vaccine had time to take effect!

@AStudyinPink thankfully I don't have to cast off anyone, as there is no one in my family who is so fucking stupid as to refuse the vaccine.

Are they expecting you to do their shopping for them forever then? We are early 60s so younger than your PIL but perfectly able to do online shopping or go into a supermarket should we so wish to. We don't at the moment but can shop online. If they are weird about news and TV though do they not do online shopping either? My daughters have enough to do without doing our shopping too so I would not ask them. Maybe suggest as they are obviously not worried about catching the virus they can cope with a supermarket as you will be busy looking after your children.

I also think you are getting unnecessarily harsh comments about the childcare bubble. We are in one with our DD and SIL as they are trying to work full time from home whilst home schooling a 5 year old and looking after a 2 year old. My SIL is actually a key worker but will not send the 5 year old to school to protect us and ease the burden on the teachers who have many more children in school this time. It is hard and there are no strict guidelines for the childcare bubble so you are not breaking rules. However if they are not doing all they can to stop the virus continuing to escalate by not getting vaccinated to protect the wider community I would not be happy having them look after the children either.

There were tons of long term issues with the anthrax vaccine, all pretty well documented as it affected military personnel. His father suffered from nerve damage, and another relative from infertility- much harder to attribute. He is convinced that his health issues are related. I get really cross when people accuse those who doubt “the science”. It has been proven wrong so many times. Yes medicine does great things, but it can also do great harm. I am from the thalidomide generation, as are many of the older generation being accused by their young daughters or daughters in law of being stupid. We are not. We are cautious. I was an active birth teacher a fair few years ago and I met several women whose babies were vaccine damaged. The argument goes that a few suffer to protect the many. I doubt the critics on here would agree if it was their baby. I made a very reasoned choice to delay my children’s vaccinations until their immune system was fully formed. We only vaccinate babies so young as it’s the time women have such close contact with the health service so they tend to turn up for appointments. My gp was happy with my decision, and all 3 of my boys were fully vaccinated when they were older. Many health service staff are refusing to be vaccinated, and they know the risk of Covid. The undeniable fact is that Covid affects the very old and those with certain underlying health conditions. Swathes of the population have already had it with absolutely no effect, and they will now be as protected as if they had the vaccine. This disease is not dangerous to over 99% of the population, so it is wrong to compare it with smallpox and polio. I’ve gone off point here so I will stop.

Maybe they read about the deaths from the vaccine, maybe they heard about Gibraltar and are scared. It’s a free country if they don’t want it, it’s up to them.

@Mitzimccormack

There were tons of long term issues with the anthrax vaccine, all pretty well documented as it affected military personnel. His father suffered from nerve damage, and another relative from infertility- much harder to attribute. He is convinced that his health issues are related. I get really cross when people accuse those who doubt “the science”. It has been proven wrong so many times. Yes medicine does great things, but it can also do great harm. I am from the thalidomide generation, as are many of the older generation being accused by their young daughters or daughters in law of being stupid. We are not. We are cautious. I was an active birth teacher a fair few years ago and I met several women whose babies were vaccine damaged. The argument goes that a few suffer to protect the many. I doubt the critics on here would agree if it was their baby. I made a very reasoned choice to delay my children’s vaccinations until their immune system was fully formed. We only vaccinate babies so young as it’s the time women have such close contact with the health service so they tend to turn up for appointments. My gp was happy with my decision, and all 3 of my boys were fully vaccinated when they were older. Many health service staff are refusing to be vaccinated, and they know the risk of Covid. The undeniable fact is that Covid affects the very old and those with certain underlying health conditions. Swathes of the population have already had it with absolutely no effect, and they will now be as protected as if they had the vaccine. This disease is not dangerous to over 99% of the population, so it is wrong to compare it with smallpox and polio. I’ve gone off point here so I will stop.

I’d like to know: What vaccine damage did the babies have? When is the immune system fully formed? What percentage of NHS staff have declined the vaccine? Where the figure of covid being dangerous in less than 1% of the population came from?