To have become a Brexiteer yesterday?

[Mentum]

I was so Remain, I was devastated when we left. But the EU trying to steal our vac and casually invoking Article 16 has really left me aghast. I can't believe they are lashing out this way, I don't understand why.

@Dustyboots

I actually think the EU might have finally found a way to heal some of the rifts from 2016

I think you’re right @Mentum. I voted remain too and for the first time yesterday wondered whether Leave voters could have been right.

Covid will, one day, pass.

I can be angry at how the EU has behaved in the last few days but i can also understand their anger - not the actions.

It hasn't changed my view that Brexit is very damaging for the UK, it means we are competitors, will have less trade, travel, tourism, culture, security, military and crime cooperation.

Longer term, the EU will seek to keep its very best scientists in the EU, not going to Oxford, they'll massively ramp up their scientific and medical research areas.
they will never want this episode repeated.

I agree that our success with the vaccine wasn't luck, and it's a kick in the teeth to suggest it is, lots of people worked very hard and made measured and sensible decisions, balanced risk and acted early (not specially including the gov in this, in the case of the Oxford vaccine it was led from the scientists themselves), and that is not luck. However, I think you can be aghast and dissapointed in the childish way the EU are behaving, and still stand by whatever decision you made overall in terms of Brexit, as this is just one element, albeit it does highlight a lot of issues imo with the bloc approach. Either way, let's hope a reasonable resolution is reached for the good of the people.

[quote Blessex]@ParlezVousWronglais except this isn’t luck.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/29/we-had-to-go-it-alone-how-the-uk-got-ahead-in-the-covid-vaccine-race[/quote]
This article makes the same point as I have made - that member states chose to join the EU procurement scheme "for the common good".

When we were members we were good little Europeans. We might have complained a lot but we always followed everything to the letter. Had we remained, a government led by the likes of Cameron or Starmer would have gone along with the European procurement

However, this is a very good point.

SeasonFinale have they reversed it? They are still bringing the export notifications in, and all companies Pfizer Astra Moderns are behind on shipments. I agree they have fudged enough to give wiggle room though.

Regardless, yesterday can't be undone. They thought UK lives were a price worth paying to cover up their own mistakes on procurement. It doesn't just wash away the next day.

@redsquirrelfan yes but members don't ‘choose’ - they feel obliged to.

YaBu
But Yanbu to have second thoughts after yesteday’s antics
The Eu is a corrupt and insanely bureaucratic institution but we can only influence that by being part of it.
It’s worth putting up with the annoyance for free trade and movement though IMO.

German MPs are now complaining that the EU took over the negotiations with AZ. They didn’t relinquish the negotiations happily.

@Mentum

Boris Johnson's covid record is shameful. He has caused tens of thousands of deaths by trying to save Christmas.

But he put the right people and money behind vaccines. The EU messed it up.

But they're administering the vaccine incorrectly!

What is the point of 'being first' then, predictably, fucking up?

@Frazzled2207 the problem is that we didn’t really hold much influence when we were part of said corrupt organisation. The fact Cameron was sent home tail between legs showed as much.

Yes YABU. "Becoming a Brexiteer" based on this whole debacle is about as intelligent as being one because you think it's gonna give the NHS an extra £350 million a day.

So at least you're not alone I guess.

Ireland must also be mightily pissed off after last nights article 16 cock up. They weren’t even consulted!

[quote Blessex]@Mentum yes that is definitely sour grapes from Macron and a very dangerous thing for him to be saying and against the EMA approval too. What the hell is he thinking.[/quote]
Macron isn’t popular in France and I believe the French vaccine is a way down the line. His posturing is idiotic. Why is such a fuss being made about supply if the vaccine is only offering “5% “ immunity?

@Hoiking

Welcome to the club. I'm hoping someone will open the Brexit Arms again so all the new folk can gather and share a drink while we watch the EU car crash.

It was this goadiness that got you effectively shut down before.

But I guess 'learning from mistakes' was never a rabid Brexiteer strong point, was it?

[quote Blessex]@Frazzled2207 the problem is that we didn’t really hold much influence when we were part of said corrupt organisation. The fact Cameron was sent home tail between legs showed as much.[/quote]
I know. Still think membership was worth it though.

And by the way I was also a staunch remainer. Married to an EU citizen. And the two of us have been over many antics over the last few months.

The EU Have been made to back down over the plans for a hard border, they are showing themselves the bullies they are. The fucked up in their ordering and contracts with vaccines, and are trying to bully their way to the top. The backlash from this won't just be the U.K., other countries will be watching how they behave.

@HappydaysArehere
I have generally favoured macron but agree his recent posturing is not doing him any favours

@Frazzled2207 yep that is how I thought too. But now we are out we have got to make it work and vaccine rollout is a good first start. We now need many more successes.

@Mentum

I was so Remain, I was devastated when we left. But the EU trying to steal our vac and casually invoking Article 16 has really left me aghast. I can't believe they are lashing out this way, I don't understand why.

I don't believe you.

We voted to protect our interests, they are simply following suit.
I am nearly 200% sure that U.K. would have done exactly what they have done.

@Blessex

Ireland must also be mightily pissed off after last nights article 16 cock up. They weren’t even consulted!

I bet they've got the banging hump. It shows Ireland and other countries, the EU think they can do whatever they want over your countries. They really don't think much of the countries leaders at all.

@Frazzled2207 Macron’s comments over the AZ vaccine are dangerous. How he can not understand that is baffling. He is not acting like a grown up. He is the leader of a large country. The MHRA and the EMA have both signed this vaccine off but no, Macron knows better than all those experts. The arrogance is astonishing.

@YakkityYakYakYak

I’m sort of with you OP. I voted remain but the efficiency with which we’ve been able to approve and roll out the vaccine compared to the EU is a clear benefit of having left. However, I’m sure there will be many other disadvantages of having left that become apparent to us over the next few months and years.

But we're not doing it properly! That's the point!

The Pfizer second dose should be given three weeks after the first, not three months. It was a political decision, made on the back of having practically the highest death rate in the world.

I can entirely see why Boris rushed in as he had nowhere left to turn.

The Eu is a corrupt and insanely bureaucratic institution but we can only influence that by being part of it.

How did we influence the corruption when we were an EU member? Has the EU become more corrupt since UK left?

[quote Blessex]@PickAChew if we had remained we would be unvaccinated.[/quote]

We left and will be semi-vaccinated.

Go us.