To have become a Brexiteer yesterday?

[Mentum]

I was so Remain, I was devastated when we left. But the EU trying to steal our vac and casually invoking Article 16 has really left me aghast. I can't believe they are lashing out this way, I don't understand why.

@Mistigri ah nice to be called clueless on a Saturday morning. You happen to be in the EU?

Why should there be retaliation?

You do know that the Brexit deal is full of clauses about how, when and where retaliation can be done? Signed by both sides.

@Mentum

Boris Johnson's covid record is shameful. He has caused tens of thousands of deaths by trying to save Christmas.

But he put the right people and money behind vaccines. The EU messed it up.

No. The virus, people’s actions and their previous lifestyles have led to deaths, (the vast majority of deaths are people with high BMI or pre-existing conditions often related to diet/exercise/lifestyle. Just because people could meet at Christmas didn’t mean you had to. I havnt seen my mum since last February or my sister as they are both shielding and have been since last February. The government strongly advised that whilst they were not making it illegal to meet over Xmasthey advised people not to. Matt Hancock, Boris Johnson and other Government advisers all said they would not be meeting with their extended family over Xmas.

People need to take responsibility, we have been given enough information and statistics about the dangers and transmission of the virus.

If we had not had Brexit we probably would not have Boris Johnson as Prime Minister. We would have had a cabinet of the most able Tories, not as we have now, largely the least able. An alternative Tory Prime Minister would have acted far quicker in March and September.

At least ten thousand fewer deaths so far, in exchange for vaccination perhaps at worst two months later for some people, I think.

Mentum, you are right brexit is going to be painful until we find our feet. The next few years are not going to be easy. I am very worried for the future it is clear our neighbour in Europe is proving itself to be almost totalitarian and I don’t know how that will pan out for the people of Europe, us British, the Irish (within the EU and a physical border with the UK).

Things are going to get worse before they get better but it doesn’t mean Brexit it was wrong. I wish The EU had listened to David Cameron when he suggested they reform. But of course unaccountable EU officials had only there best interests at heart. Now people in the EU are going to die because they failed to act and Invest in vaccines. They are scapegoating us and we should remember our friends in Europe are the ordinary civilians not the EU.

They shot themselves in the foot and have since back tracked. Brexit is still the single most stupid political move in aeons.

@Fucket

Because the president of the USA is the most powerful and respected leader of the western world, the largest country in NATO, and a personal and national interest in Ireland and NI affairs.

His US pharmaceutical companies are being threaten to have their intellectual property rights taken from them over a spat between a different pharmaceutical company.

When there is issues in North Korea or Iran the US presidents opinion has huge ramifications for global peace and prosperity. Hence why the world breathed a huge sigh of relief when Trump was kicked out.

Which I find odd to be honest as Trump was one of only a couple who didn’t take the US in to war and actually reduced troop numbers. Maybe it’s only the nice presidents that go to war

It's like people expected Brexit to happen an no retaliation from the EU to follow, ever.

Exactly. You piss people off, they're going to get back at you. The UK would be exactly the same.

I was and would still be a solid remainer. But right now is the best of times to discover a bit of a silver lining.

How did you think they would treat us? The UK govt and media has disrespected them terribly for years. Brexiteers voted selfishly, now let the EU be selfish, they owe us nothing

@Mentum

I was so Remain, I was devastated when we left. But the EU trying to steal our vac and casually invoking Article 16 has really left me aghast. I can't believe they are lashing out this way, I don't understand why.

I think you had too much faith in the EU, they weren’t so keen to share their PPE with us early on and yet now demand we share our vaccines.

@peak2021

If we had not had Brexit we probably would not have Boris Johnson as Prime Minister. We would have had a cabinet of the most able Tories, not as we have now, largely the least able. An alternative Tory Prime Minister would have acted far quicker in March and September.

At least ten thousand fewer deaths so far, in exchange for vaccination perhaps at worst two months later for some people, I think.

If we had not had Brexit we’d still be waiting for a vaccine. You can’t deny that.

You are not being unreasonable.

I voted remain, but could always see the other side. I accepted the vote, and have hoped for the best post Brexit, but was worried.

The early post Brexit results have exceeded my expectations. We have not had the empty supermarkets and shortages as warned, and our nimbleness on the vaccine front has been spectacular.

I have to consider that the people who voted leave had better judgement than me. That’s the magic of democracy. All of us know more than any one of us. And the majority opinion was better than the minority opinion in this case.

I think when you have a lunatic in charge of the nuclear codes you have no choice to believe the most powerful man on the planet may actual nuke you to pieces. It’s not a sustainable foreign policy though!

This is only the start of the tug of war congratulations to the UK for the successful vaccine it is unfortunate they couldn't share when the EU snoozed on ordering.
I did feel for the UK initially with Brexit now they have the power the colours show.
The future recession is more worrying they UK and EU are acting like powerful spoilt DC/divorce 💑 when the relationship breaks.

If we had not had Brexit we’d still be waiting for a vaccine. You can’t deny that.

Nope, wrong on all counts.

Everything the U.K. has done in terms of accelerate emergency approvals could have been done within the EU. Hungary - an EU member - has given authorisation to the Russian vaccine.

it is unfortunate they couldn't share when the EU snoozed on ordering. Even if we had wanted to stop injecting the U.K. vulnerable with the jabs we have all paid for and share those jabs with the EU - they couldn’t have used them anyway as they only approved them yesterday. And anyone macron doesn’t want them in the arms of his most vulnerable either as he is willy waving that the jab suddenly becomes ineffective when you turn 65 - clearly the immune systems starts reacting in a completely different way then. What a moron. Also saying that in a country that is already anti-vaccine heavy.

@Mistigri yes we could have gone outside the EU theoretically. But it would have been very difficult. Italy, the Netherlands, Germany and France did exactly that and for swiftly pulled back in and the EU took over.

*got

you have to take the rough with the smooth and right now it’s smooth, which is nice, for the U.K. as a whole.

Christ, how stupid and short-sighted can you be? Is it smooth for fishing communities, the small businesses who've said they probably won't be able to survive all the extra red-tape and fees, the musicians who can't tour even when covid is over, the hauliers...? One thing has gone okay so far but it is far from smooth overall

@Mistigri Hungary were ok to authorise the Russian vaccine because the EU didn’t have a deal on that. The EU had a deal on the AZ vaccine. Ireland wanted to pre-order the AZ vaccine before EMA approval and were told no by the EU. They had to wait. The reality is different from the theory.

I would still vote to remain. I know it's likely that if we were still in the EU my mum wouldn't have had her vaccine yet, but you also have to see the bigger picture and the loss of freedom of movement for my son doesn't outweigh a few months vaccine delay for her. You may think I am mean but I know she would agree with me (she was one of the rare oldies who voted to remain).

Also member states could make their own arrangements but they chose not to. So maybe the UK would still have made its own arrangements. Of course we'll never know.

However, I have been shocked at some Commissioners' and MEP's nonsensical remarks and wonder whether some of the Commissioners will be quietly replaced (sadly can't replace MEPs until the next parliamentary election). Interesting that Barnier told them to stop starting a vaccine war (according to today's Times) - he must be tearing his hair out after spending the last 4.5 years trying to protect the peace process in Ireland!

I can understand why some people would vote to stay out if there were a rejoin vote tomorrow!

Unfortunately for the EU they awarded contracts more based on political expediency (as is usual in their way of doing business) rather than on hard nosed likely performance. As an earlier poster said, Kate Bingham has done a brilliant job...but then look at her background. She is a hard nosed venture capitalist, experienced in the field. An excellent appointment but one which in if there had been more time for politicians to criticise, they would have done..certainly the Labour Party.

So yes we have been fortunate to have such an excellent person at the helm..and recognising the importance of pump priming and contracting early.

This has been a useful experience of the EU showing true colours, but to be fair, the Commission is under total attack by member countries for its failure, and understandably so as they look across the channel and see the progress here from a disastrous situation and their death rates are still claiming and looking again at more total lockdowns.

[quote Blessex]@Mistigri Hungary were ok to authorise the Russian vaccine because the EU didn’t have a deal on that. The EU had a deal on the AZ vaccine. Ireland wanted to pre-order the AZ vaccine before EMA approval and were told no by the EU. They had to wait. The reality is different from the theory.[/quote]
My understanding is that member states could make their own arrangements but chose not to.

Until yesterday I think I was still absolutely outraged at Brexit. Angry and unwilling to accept it psychologically.

Now I still think it will be very bad but am no longer in opposition mode to it. Let's make it work.

@redsquirrelfan member states tried to make their own arrangements (Italy, France, Germany and Netherlands) and were pulled back in by mum and dad.