To have become a Brexiteer yesterday?

[Mentum]

I was so Remain, I was devastated when we left. But the EU trying to steal our vac and casually invoking Article 16 has really left me aghast. I can't believe they are lashing out this way, I don't understand why.

I’m sort of with you OP. I voted remain but the efficiency with which we’ve been able to approve and roll out the vaccine compared to the EU is a clear benefit of having left. However, I’m sure there will be many other disadvantages of having left that become apparent to us over the next few months and years.

Excellent post, fucket

@Fucket

I was on the fence. But now definitely glad we left. I’ve been reading the other threads and I can’t believe how some people are trying to justify the EUs actions. It’s like listening to Lord Haw Haw... EU calling Eu calling...

I used to live in the EU, I have friends in Germany, Denmark, Holland and Sweden. I see the rioting already, and the EU proving that being unaccountable to the electorate can only lead to one thing. I hope it implodes gracefully without loss of lives. I just cannot see how the EU can behave like this and not see how the world is watching and businesses must be quietly thinking about how good for business the EU is if they are so willing to publish confidential contracts. I was pretty sure our government would be the first to break the brexit agreement, yet it is the EU who created ROI/NI border fiasco LESS THAN A MONTH later.

I hope president Biden does something positive to calm this down.

What do Macron and Merkel have to say over the debacle? They are very quiet are they distancing themselves from the EU too?

I am by no means a supporter of our governments response to the pandemic. They deserve to scrutinised and held accountable for failures. But at least we get vote them all out at the GE. This is what my father had been going on about for years and I think I owe him an apology, because I thought he was just using it as a weak excuse to justify Brexit.

President Biden has no control over the EU or the U.K., why would anything he say have an effect?

People change minds when it affects their own household. They then "see the light".

It could be argued that if we had remained, we wouldn't be in this mess, anyhow and that our national arrogance has been shown to be misplaced. Better on the inside peeing out etc etc.

Brexit will still hit us very hard, but yesterday's actions were not those of a trustworthy partner.

The EU isn't UK's partner anymore.

It's like people expected Brexit to happen an no retaliation from the EU to follow, ever.

@PickAChew if we had remained we would be unvaccinated.

@EileenGC I would like to think that the EU are our allies and partners. They manage it with Switzerland and Norway.

but yesterday's actions were not those of a trustworthy partner

You know this works two ways, right? You're not a partner. You're a competitor - an often hostile competitor, at that - see the recent unnecessary and unhelpful spat about not recognising diplomatic status.

There are no remainers any more, and rejoiners are deluded. The EU doesn't want you back.

Some of my friends who were pretty ambivalent about the EU became passionate supporters during Brexit. They are bound to feel let down at some point and betrayed. I think the people who viewed the EU as not so great but would rather remain, probably haven’t changed their views.

Because the president of the USA is the most powerful and respected leader of the western world, the largest country in NATO, and a personal and national interest in Ireland and NI affairs.

His US pharmaceutical companies are being threaten to have their intellectual property rights taken from them over a spat between a different pharmaceutical company.

When there is issues in North Korea or Iran the US presidents opinion has huge ramifications for global peace and prosperity. Hence why the world breathed a huge sigh of relief when Trump was kicked out.

mistgiri Yes rejoin is clearly off the table now.

@naturalnursery

We voted to protect our interests, they are simply following suit.

Tbh, I think it's more of a negotiating stance - our gov needs to get it's act together and decide where our alliances lie. We can't be best buds with US and EU and China etc, that's not how it works and the EU was making this clear.

Plus, I think they've now withdrawn this anyway?

But they found themselves in this situation because they didn’t order early enough. Then proceeded to throw their toys out the pram and then had to back track.

They manage it with Switzerland and Norway.

It's like the last five years never happened .

The relationship with Norway and Switzerland is fundamentally different because they are either fully (Norway) or de facto (Switzerland) inside the single market. They accept EU rules, although without participating in making them.

You're a competitor, threatening Singapore on Thames on the EU's border, lowering food, environmental and worker standards. And you think they're your "partner"? LMAO. Only in defence is that somewhat true.

No you're not insane. I voted Remain and live in the EU. Brexit has really fucked things up for me on a personal level. But as you say now I think I support it.

lowering food, environmental and worker standards.

Evidence please @Mistigri

Our exporters are really struggling and economically leaving is going to hurt for at least the next 5 years until we come to a new equilibrium and other markets open up. I still think the negotiations focussed too much on theoretical concepts of sovereignty instead of practically useful outcomes.

But I was wrong to roll my eyes at Take Back Control. It is actually true.

Pointless expecting a balanced discussion OP. You're quite right of course but you'll struggle to get a MN remainer to see that you've got a point. I was a remainer and I agree with you. It's outrageous behaviour and I have read various opinion pieces this morning agreeing.

On MN the EU can never do anything wrong because supposedly the U.K. is just a backward nation full of gammons and racists. Even when the EU screws up then it's still our own fault and they're fully justified because of...see above. I am baffled that so many are able to be so partisan and disgusted by their own country and unable to hold any balance or change their position even in the face of bullying, illegal behaviour.

@EileenGC

Brexit will still hit us very hard, but yesterday's actions were not those of a trustworthy partner.

The EU isn't UK's partner anymore.

It's like people expected Brexit to happen an no retaliation from the EU to follow, ever.

Why should there be retaliation? Doesn’t that say more about them?

There are no remainers any more, and rejoiners are deluded. The EU doesn't want you back

I can well believe the EU doesn’t want UK back, but if there are no remainers any more why are there still so many posters supporting remain on the Brexit threads on mn?

@Blessex

C'mon. Why was the U.K. govt absolutely insistent on a hard-as-nails Brexit? Because they don't want to be tied by EU rules of food, environmental and employment standards in future trade deals.

We've already had talks just this week of a review of worker rights (back-pedalled for now). You can google yourself, but you don't refuse to sign up to a minimum set of standards because you want to improve them (the way EU standards work, exceeding them is not an issue).

@Mentum

Boris Johnson's covid record is shameful. He has caused tens of thousands of deaths by trying to save Christmas.

But he put the right people and money behind vaccines. The EU messed it up.

I get this, but also there has to be some responsibility from the public on this too. In the weeks leading up to Christmas I was sick of reading and hearing about people being so distraught at the prospect of not having Christmas with family. I agree it was a mistake to allow even one day, but there was also a lot of public and media pressure to allow some sort of Christmas. My partner and I stayed at home, as did lots of people I know as they appraised the information available prioritised health over a fancy roast dinner.

@Mistigri doesn’t automatically mean standards will go down. Indeed standards on animal welfare are actually going up.

why are there still so many posters supporting remain

Silly comment. People can discuss the Brexit deal without "wanting to remain". In any case, "remain" as a concept (ie supporting the status quo) has no longer had the same meaning since 31st January 2020.

@Blessex so? You didn't need to leave the EU for that. Clueless.