To have become a Brexiteer yesterday?

[Mentum]

I was so Remain, I was devastated when we left. But the EU trying to steal our vac and casually invoking Article 16 has really left me aghast. I can't believe they are lashing out this way, I don't understand why.

Yes it is time to reset and work together going forward when possible

Again, what's happening about the suggestion that they'd block exports of vaccines ... I'm not aware they've rowed back from that?

Obviously the Ireland issue's important, but some of us would quite like to know about this too

In the context of the idiocy art16 triggering was, no one, it was a few hours of nothing practical on the actual border, A.Foster saying it was an act of aggression was silly and dangerous

😮is about all I can say to that!

@staceybeaker

EU is far from perfect, but it has kept peace in Europe since WW2

You are wrong. There is war in Europe since 2014 and EU doesn't give a f*ck. One of the reasons for the war is that Ukraine wanted to join the EU.

It is NATO that kept some peace.

@Puzzledandpissedoff apparently Boris and VDL discussed that as well late Friday and she backtracked and said that all contracted and paid for Pfizer doses would be allowed to come into the country. Apparently he told her that many grandparents needed their second dose but I don’t know how true that is.

Here you go @Puzzledandpissedoff

Really appreciate that, Blessex; I hadn't heard that bit and it's good to know

Ah and that’s the way to do it Ursula. Cool head and work together with your supplier. Usually gets better results than lashing out.

@staceybeaker

EU is far from perfect, but it has kept peace in Europe since WW2

Er the war in the Balkans in the 1990’s?

If you don’t understand, OP, I don’t think you understood the EU very well.

I did vote Remain, while holding my nose to some extent because I never thought it the haloed beacon of sense and sanctity that many Remainers - apparently blind worshippers - did.

I always thought - with trepidation- that they’d do their best to make life difficult for us if we voted to leave. It’s a massive gravy-train of bureaucracy, with some pretty unpleasant and megalomaniac people in top,positions.

I did once think we could help to reform it by staying in, but eventually realised that all those MEPs were never in a million years going to vote for anything that would disrupt their cosy, lavish-expenses gravy train.

@Blessex

Ah and that’s the way to do it Ursula. Cool head and work together with your supplier. Usually gets better results than lashing out.

I agree great

However that is actually a load of tripe

Az were already in the process of expanding their manufacturing in Europe (as are Pfizer)

The extra doses she talks of were agreed after her meeting with AZ CEO the other day. Before they pulled the Irish boarder stunt! AZ bloke told the press after the meeting that things were back on track with the EU and an extra number of doses than originally thought were going to be supplied. He obviously thought all sorted.

Then EU decided to pull the boarder stunt to keep Pfizer in check.

The EU queen bee is literally twisting the truth. So she sounds like all this is a result from her handling. When in fact everything there was already a done deal.

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

If you don’t understand, OP, I don’t think you understood the EU very well.

I did vote Remain, while holding my nose to some extent because I never thought it the haloed beacon of sense and sanctity that many Remainers - apparently blind worshippers - did.

I always thought - with trepidation- that they’d do their best to make life difficult for us if we voted to leave. It’s a massive gravy-train of bureaucracy, with some pretty unpleasant and megalomaniac people in top,positions.

I did once think we could help to reform it by staying in, but eventually realised that all those MEPs were never in a million years going to vote for anything that would disrupt their cosy, lavish-expenses gravy train.

This is basically me too

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum oh good god. I thought she had seen some sense. It’s all politics isn’t it. If this is the case AZ must be seething.

[quote Blessex]@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum oh good god. I thought she had seen some sense. It’s all politics isn’t it. If this is the case AZ must be seething.[/quote]
I can imagine they are but to professional to say a word. Like our government they have been silent or barely commenting.

I think everyone knows their is little to gain in challenging this. She needs to save face. So they are letting her. Load of tosh though.

[quote Caffeinefirst]@staceybeaker

EU is far from perfect, but it has kept peace in Europe since WW2

Er the war in the Balkans in the 1990’s?[/quote]
Yugoslavia wasn't in the EU, had been so, a different outcome might have transpired.

I agree that for all its faults, having a centralised forum and contact to resolve differences is better than what has kept european countries at war with each other for centuries.

Yes I know that Yugoslavia wasn’t in the EU but the comment made was that the EU has maintained peace in Europe - not just within the countries that are part of the EU bloc. You’d hope that it would be quite straightforward to maintain peace between countries that are all part of the same political/trading group.

A quick comment on musicians not being able to tour Europe. How do USA musicians manage to tour Europe?

@Lincslady53

A quick comment on musicians not being able to tour Europe. How do USA musicians manage to tour Europe?

ONLY big US bands tour Europe. Small bands stay in the USA

The EU queen bee is literally twisting the truth. So she sounds like all this is a result from her handling. When in fact everything there was already a done deal

Accurately put, Truelymadlydeeply

However she's a politician, so ...

@Caffeinefirst

Yes I know that Yugoslavia wasn’t in the EU but the comment made was that the EU has maintained peace in Europe - not just within the countries that are part of the EU bloc. You’d hope that it would be quite straightforward to maintain peace between countries that are all part of the same political/trading group.

After the mass killings and war crimes ended

1,000,000 Yugoslavs moved to Western Europe and integrated so well
that Brexiter xenophobes forget that they are here

I keep thinking back to Obama's comment, after the 2016 referendum result, when he said it was 'just a hiccup on the road to a United States of Europe'. Chilling.

And the next four years when the combined powers of the EU, media, business, finance, academia and the British intelligentsia repeatedly tried to overturn democracy by slandering, demonising and bullying Leave voters. It took 3 more elections before we finally got to leave. The whole thing was such an eye-opener. I will never again naively assume that people support democracy or will honour election results.

I guess this is one of those benefits of leaving the EU that no one would ever have been able to quantify until it actually happened. All the times the question was asked, what did leavers think would be better for leaving the EU? I guess no one knew in a lot of cases. Obviously some things are worse for being outside of it, but we would never have had this comparison otherwise, that we would fare better in our vaccination process should a pandemic arrive. We would have had the status quo and would have been none the wiser.

ListeningQuietly

1,000,000 Yugoslavs moved to Western Europe and integrated so well that Brexiter xenophobes forget that they are here

Here is a thought.

Maybe they don't care as much as you think that they do.

@bigpricklyfern

I guess this is one of those benefits of leaving the EU that no one would ever have been able to quantify until it actually happened. All the times the question was asked, what did leavers think would be better for leaving the EU? I guess no one knew in a lot of cases. Obviously some things are worse for being outside of it, but we would never have had this comparison otherwise, that we would fare better in our vaccination process should a pandemic arrive. We would have had the status quo and would have been none the wiser.

Yes of course it is great that Brits get vaccinated promptly and lives are saved but it's a global pandemic and so I can't really see it in the long term as being about one country's race to grab vaccines before anyone else. In order to recover properly, health wise and financially, the UK needs it's closest neighbours and trading partners and indeed most major countries in the world to be vaccinated too. The key is in the phrase "global" pandemic. I really think it is very important that the vaccine roll-out is done fairly and equitably and that the smallest and poorest countries in the world aren't shoved to the back of the queue.

Calling people who voted for Brexit xenophobes is so reductive. Don't you people bore even yourselves, repeating the same old tired rubbish every day?

@Wildswim

I keep thinking back to Obama's comment, after the 2016 referendum result, when he said it was 'just a hiccup on the road to a United States of Europe'. Chilling.

And the next four years when the combined powers of the EU, media, business, finance, academia and the British intelligentsia repeatedly tried to overturn democracy by slandering, demonising and bullying Leave voters. It took 3 more elections before we finally got to leave. The whole thing was such an eye-opener. I will never again naively assume that people support democracy or will honour election results.

election results are always upheld in the UK. the argument was how that result was implemented as the referendum question didn't ask that. Yes there was some discussion about a 2nd vote but never by govt but the main reason there was a 3 year delay (we left 31/1/20) was May calling a GE, in which the people decided not to give the govt a majority. the 2017 election result also had to be upheld didn't it?