To have become a Brexiteer yesterday?

[Mentum]

I was so Remain, I was devastated when we left. But the EU trying to steal our vac and casually invoking Article 16 has really left me aghast. I can't believe they are lashing out this way, I don't understand why.

The thing which is upsetting here, is that if the EU had only asked instead of threatened, I believe the UK would have helped them out. Those of us who chose to leave the EU were not choosing to allow vulnerable people in Europe to die. And from a pragmatic pov, the whole world needs for the whole world to get vaccinated because it's the only way out of this mess.
I don't accept that the UK has done anything bad to the EU by wanting to leave - it was meant to be a trading agreement and has morphed into far more than that. It's okay to end a relationship that you feel isn't in your best long term interests - you might be right to do it or you might be wrong but either way both parties should behave legally and respectfully.
Having made a huge song and dance about the UK not threatening the peace process, it has become clear that the EU are willing to throw that process under the bus to suit itself. If I was Irish I'd not have a great deal of faith in this organisation I'd hitched my wagon to.
I think the UK govt has actually been quite restrained in its response - the most undiplomatic and downright rude comments have come from the EU.

It's politics though, asking for help would make them look weak

• Just as a point of order - Article 16 wasn't triggered

The (stupid) proposal to do so was published as draft documentation on one the EUs websites on Friday night but it never got beyond the draft stage, fortunately, because of objections from, funnily enough Irish and other nations politicians.*

Exactly, the EU threatened it (stupidly) just like the uk has threatened it, along with original Patel threatening to starve Ireland, Johnson (actually) putting gunboats in the channel, threatening to break international law. They’re all Willy-waving-war-gaming idiots.

& harder to deflect blame

As I understood the contract, the UK plants were to be used to aid EU supply further down the line and initial supplies were to come from EU plants. Only the EU tried to do this on the cheap, which is partly why things have gone pear shaped. The UK invested more money in our development process - is the EU going to reimburse us for that outlay if they intend to benefit from it?

Exactly, the EU threatened it (stupidly) just like the uk has threatened it, along with original Patel threatening to starve Ireland, Johnson (actually) putting gunboats in the channel, threatening to break international law.

We were of course wrong to threaten but I don't think it's quite the same. All the press for one have gone with the invoked narrative which is very bad PR as is not discussing it first with Ireland.

As AZ isn't making money from the vaccine, why not release the patent now?

As for the UK joining a pacific rim trading bloc? thats just weird, its also been superseded by the RCEP, which inc China.

But isn't it for countries with a pacific coast? ie Chile is in it, Argentina isn't.

I am just hoping that Macrons comments are not going to affect uptake of the vaccine here or anywhere else. But it is clear politicians shouldn’t be speculating on vaccine efficacy. That is the job of the EMA and MHRA and FDA. The former two have signed off AZ. So why does Macron think he should be undermining that approval? Or is it because it’s the ‘British’ vaccine and he is pissed that the French vaccine failed. I mean it really is like being in High School.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously yep and the U.K. factories also had supply issues. But there were 3 additional months to sort these out.

We were of course wrong to threaten but I don't think it's quite the same. All the press for one have gone with the invoked narrative which is very bad PR as is not discussing it first with Ireland

I think we'll use this triggering of art16, to beat the EU with, for years to come but it shouldn't be forgotten that it was withdrawn just a few hours later.
Given how slow the EC usually is, i thought it would take many days/weeks.

I wonder who triggered it? VDL or a lower ranking official acting outside of their brief?

Its quite incredible behavior.

Having made a huge song and dance about the UK not threatening the peace process, it has become clear that the EU are willing to throw that process under the bus to suit itself. If I was Irish I'd not have a great deal of faith in this organisation I'd hitched my wagon to.
I think the UK govt has actually been quite restrained in its response - the most undiplomatic and downright rude comments have come from the EU.

Exactly. Spot on.

Macrons comments were so odd. I feel like the only motivation was to discredit it.

@Twillow

Can anyone tell me precisely WHY should precious Little Britain expect to nab all the vaccines to the detriment of other countries that are suffering, regardless of previous agreement?

The UK has fucked off from the EU with no grace whatsoever. To the detriment of the UK's standing in the entire world and causing personal and business mayhem with trade.

Again WHY ON EARTH should the EU not use any powers/clauses it has to get what they need

Good grief. Once again we have the 'Little Britain' denigration of our country together with the hubris that the Eyes of the World are continually fixrd upon special, exceptional, important (but always filth) Britain.

Make your mind up.

but it shouldn't be forgotten that it was withdrawn just a few hours later.

Why was it withdrawn?

@marbellamarc it was withdrawn because the Irish Taoiseach called up the EC and said ‘what the actual fuck’

I wonder who triggered it? VDL or a lower ranking official acting outside of their brief?

I'm sure that's classified 😆

I wonder who triggered it? VDL or a lower ranking official acting outside of their brief?

There is a big article in the Guardian about this.

It started in the health department as a technical solution and was then passed off by Von Der Leyen's senior aides with our recognising what that means.

Macron's comments were Trumpian. I was furious with the hardcore leavers for not seeming to care one jot about Ireland and the GFA, the EU have shown they don't really care either. I am disillusioned with politicians on all sides at the moment.

@Bluethrough

We were of course wrong to threaten but I don't think it's quite the same. All the press for one have gone with the invoked narrative which is very bad PR as is not discussing it first with Ireland

I think we'll use this triggering of art16, to beat the EU with, for years to come but it shouldn't be forgotten that it was withdrawn just a few hours later.
Given how slow the EC usually is, i thought it would take many days/weeks.

I wonder who triggered it? VDL or a lower ranking official acting outside of their brief?

Its quite incredible behavior.

"In mitigation, it was pointed out that within hours of threatening to 'mark you for life', Mr.Smith had himself acknowledged that he had been "well out of order in making the threat".

Makes all the difference in the world!

I think that we need to hear from AZ now. People are forgetting that the root of this problem lies with them not being able to supply goods as promised.

It can't be as simple as "one factory in Belgium isn't functioning" because the manufacture of vaccines involves multiple processes in different locations - the UK AZ vaccine is apparently bottled in Germany - so a bit more clarity from AZ would be welcome.

@Tobleronehouses the CEO of AZ did a big interview in La Repubblica earlier this week. He told his side of the story.

@Blessex that's my belief.

we all know what firm & constructive discussions are!

I thought it was interesting how Martin didn't really mention the UK & that the row was between AZ & EU.

Here it is

www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/vaccini_intervista_a_pascal_soriot_ceo_di_astra_zeneca-284349061/?ref=RHTP-BH-I281217261-P2-S3-T1

People are forgetting that the root of this problem lies with them not being able to supply goods as promised

The dispute is about the interpretations of the contracts which both sides disagree on.

@marbellamarc yep. That’s because he is a grown up not acting on emotion.