To have become a Brexiteer yesterday?

[Mentum]

I was so Remain, I was devastated when we left. But the EU trying to steal our vac and casually invoking Article 16 has really left me aghast. I can't believe they are lashing out this way, I don't understand why.

Also ( and I maybe wrong) wasn’t it our Oxford trials/work that did the bulk of the work who then passed the intellectual property to AZ to work out the mass production side of it?

So if the EU do trigger article 122 and seize AZ intellectual property they are effectively stealing our work too

Looks like that mass exodus of intelligent scientists after Brexit didn’t happen after all.

Can anyone tell me precisely WHY should precious Little Britain expect to nab all the vaccines to the detriment of other countries that are suffering, regardless of previous agreement?

The UK has fucked off from the EU with no grace whatsoever. To the detriment of the UK's standing in the entire world and causing personal and business mayhem with trade.

Again WHY ON EARTH should the EU not use any powers/clauses it has to get what they need

@Twillow

You sound bitter...

nab all the vaccines

🤣

Again WHY ON EARTH should the EU not use any powers/clauses it has to get what they need

Well if you believe this then Little Britain should act the same. It's slightly hypocritical to argue that your contract is valid by breaking another one. Plus it's an issue between the EU & AZ.

Germany is now threatening legal action against laboratories that fail to deliver to the EU.

When did the German government start stepping in for the EU?

@Twillow that’s an interesting take on it - that the U.K. are ‘nabbing all the vaccines’. Expand on what you mean by that. I thought we bought some Pfizer and some AZ and some Moderna. We are still waiting patiently for the Moderna and have been delivered our orders of Pfizer and AZ. How does that make the U.K. nabbing all the vaccines?

@Hammonds

Also ( and I maybe wrong) wasn’t it our Oxford trials/work that did the bulk of the work who then passed the intellectual property to AZ to work out the mass production side of it?

So if the EU do trigger article 122 and seize AZ intellectual property they are effectively stealing our work too

Looks like that mass exodus of intelligent scientists after Brexit didn’t happen after all.

Yes but this morning I read that the Oxford scientists specially wanted their intellectual property to be shared widely worldwide. UK government apparently said no and entered into an exclusive contract with AZ.

The EU has screwed up and is now showing its true colours as a bully and lacking morals. They need to wait their turn to get the vaccine, obviously they expect to jump the queue

Ireland has pegged its fortune to the EU, as demonstrated by the meek statements to come out of Dublin today. Let Ireland and the rest of the EU, a wealthy trading bloc, solve their own vaccine issues - although today will no doubt have cast a faint unease across the ROI political class. It's not pleasant to have seen the mask slip. Once again Ireland finds itself in a position of subservience to a union that won't hesitate to use it as a pawn.

The triggering of Article 16 was an international humiliation for the Irish prime minister and his government, but I think you're right, they will cravenly forgive the EU and move on.

The media won't be any different. I mean, there was an Irish Times leader this week on the usual theme of attacking Boris Johnson. No holding of their own government to account, they prefer to bash the British government. It's bizarre.

However what is going to happen when NI has fully vaccinated its population and ROI is lagging literally months behind?? There is an open border.

When did the German government start stepping in for the EU?

A long time ago. Hasn't the EU always been dominated by Germany?

However what is going to happen when NI has fully vaccinated its population and ROI is lagging literally months behind?? There is an open border.

This why I think we should help
ROI.

@Wildswim

When did the German government start stepping in for the EU?

A long time ago. Hasn't the EU always been dominated by Germany?

From memory it has always been a spilt between Germany, France and the UK.

But that could just be the spin that from the media.

Although I believe ROI are vaccinating healthcare workers first & not the vulnerable in terms of age?

Frazzled2207 have you got a link I’d like to read that.

The triggering of Article 16 was an international humiliation for the Irish prime minister and his government, but I think you're right, they will cravenly forgive the EU and move on

Just as a point of order - Article 16 wasn't triggered

The (stupid) proposal to do so was published as draft documentation on one the EUs websites on Friday night but it never got beyond the draft stage, fortunately, because of objections from, funnily enough Irish and other nations politicians.

The very fact the Irish Taoiseach wasn't consulted was humiliating. And very revealing.

I really can't get over how radical, and hostile, a move it was. And utterly hypocritical. The EU spent 4.5 years preaching and lecturing about how there could never, ever, under any circumstances, be a hard border in Ireland. And then they recklessly decide to impose one, weeks into Brexit. It shows that they never gave a toss about the peace process, and were merely using NI and ROI as pawns in a much bigger game, ie thwarting Brexit and making negotiations as difficult as possible for the UK.

I'd like to think there will be some soul searching going on in the Irish establishment, but I doubt it.

@naturalnursery

We voted to protect our interests, they are simply following suit.

Tbh, I think it's more of a negotiating stance - our gov needs to get it's act together and decide where our alliances lie. We can't be best buds with US and EU and China etc, that's not how it works and the EU was making this clear.

Plus, I think they've now withdrawn this anyway?

Why not?

We are looking at doing a deal with an Asian block, including Australia and Japan? This would also give us an 'in' with the US as they are also looking at joining this group.

Just watched the interview with the Irish Taoiseach on Andrew Marr. He confirmed that he first found out about article 16 trigger when it was made public to all. He had discussions with Boris and the EC. He said it was the wrong move and he should have been consulted.

What I find the most bizarre in all of this - is that the EU were only checking exports to the U.K. All other countries were fine eg Iceland, Morrocco etc. It was just the U.K. they had an issue with. I mean why is that? Is it because AZ is half British and half Swedish? Is it because they want to slow down the vaccinations here because we are showing them up? I just don’t get the clear singling out of one nation and the hostility.

Maybe because they wanted our help (which I think we will give) but had to ask in a way to not be asking for help

😆

@marbellamarc yep it’s an odd way to ask for help. It just smacks of wanting to kick down the successful kid in school to make yourself look bigger. Which is bullying.

@Blessex

Just watched the interview with the Irish Taoiseach on Andrew Marr. He confirmed that he first found out about article 16 trigger when it was made public to all. He had discussions with Boris and the EC. He said it was the wrong move and he should have been consulted.

What I find the most bizarre in all of this - is that the EU were only checking exports to the U.K. All other countries were fine eg Iceland, Morrocco etc. It was just the U.K. they had an issue with. I mean why is that? Is it because AZ is half British and half Swedish? Is it because they want to slow down the vaccinations here because we are showing them up? I just don’t get the clear singling out of one nation and the hostility.

It's obviously because of their petty vendetta against the UK for daring to escape the EU's corrupt, vice-like grip

My DH is saying that there is another side to the story and that AZ have to fulfil the EU contract with the whole of the supply chain including the U.K. factories. This is fair enough but isn’t there an explicit clause in the U.K. contract which states that U.K. manufactured vaccines goes to the U.K. first? And wasn’t that put in back in May in fear of Trump? Or am I mistaken there.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/31/uk-help-eu-not-affect-vaccine-timetable-liz-truss

Definitely eeing it as more than a blip!

@ConspiracyOfOne yep. It doesn’t bear well for the future.

I thought that was implied @Blessex