To have become a Brexiteer yesterday?

[Mentum]

I was so Remain, I was devastated when we left. But the EU trying to steal our vac and casually invoking Article 16 has really left me aghast. I can't believe they are lashing out this way, I don't understand why.

senior aides with our recognising what that means.

Senior aides didn't recognise the significance? 🤔

Sorry. Here is English version :-)

www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/interview_pascal_soriot_ceo_astrazeneca_coronavirus_covid_vaccines-284349628/?fbclid=IwAR2Wt0wPxjUesSsNMkPWtv9GqZiNjrmAuHHwMrtDNJ5UPRXUCS3RuPzHV58

@Violetparis

Macron's comments were Trumpian. I was furious with the hardcore leavers for not seeming to care one jot about Ireland and the GFA, the EU have shown they don't really care either. I am disillusioned with politicians on all sides at the moment.

I don't see it that way at all, Art 16 was withdrawn almost immediately, once wiser heads saw the problems it had caused.

If the EU had kept it in place, then yes, you'd be correct, they have acknowledged the mistake made, all sides have said it was a stupid thing to do.

People fuck up, its what they do after they realise their mistake that matters.

One reason i dislike Mr Johnson, he acknowledges no weaknesses or mistakes, even encouraging people to shake hands, something that cost real lives, was never apologised for.

senior aides with our recognising what that means.

Apparently so. Sorry I had taupe there but I can assure you I'm no one's senior aide, so all mistakes are my own.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/31/how-eus-floundering-vaccine-effort-hit-a-fresh-crisis-with-exports-row

@Bluethrough the entire reason it got to this point in the first place is because the EC cannot take any responsibility for their slowness!

People fuck up, its what they do after they realise their mistake that matters.

It's not that they 'realised their mistake'. It's that the Taoiseach and Boris Johnson told them in no uncertain terms to get a grip. The EU didn't even bother to consult them in advance.

One reason i dislike Mr Johnson, he acknowledges no weaknesses or mistakes, even encouraging people to shake hands, something that cost real lives, was never apologised for.

Could you link to the apology made by the EU?

@marbellamarc

People are forgetting that the root of this problem lies with them not being able to supply goods as promised

The dispute is about the interpretations of the contracts which both sides disagree on.

Er, the contract is only in dispute because AZ hasn't delivered what the EU expected. And it's not a small shortfall, it appears to be a very significant one.

once wiser heads saw the problems

The problem is the wiser heads were not from the EU.

Senior aides didn't recognise the significance? 🤔

I’m not buying into this whole ‘it was a mistake’ In my opinion (for what it’s worth) they had every intention of going ahead with this and riding rough shod to get what they wanted/needed. I would think it was Barnier stepping in that made UVDL come to her senses not the phone calls made by ROI/NI/U.K.

Er, the contract is only in dispute because AZ hasn't delivered what the EU expected. And it's not a small shortfall, it appears to be a very significant one

🤦🏼‍♀️

The thing that gets me down about it all is precisely that the EC cannot accept responsibility for its shortfalls. In all of this it has not once acknowledged that maybe it’s initial tardiness may have contributed to this mess. And then worked side by side with AZ to solve the supply issues. It has been exposed and has lashed out to blame everyone except itself. AZ. The U.K. Its quite depressing. Why can’t they simply say we fucked up but let’s work together to solve it.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon 😆😆

I should be catching up work but I've delegated to my senior aide!

It is possible to hold two or more ideas at once you know. You can simultaneously believe that overall the UK was better as a member of the world's largest trading block and be devastated to have left, whilst thinking that they're a crafty bunch (though in their position we'd do the same), and also recognising one potential benefit to having left.

It doesn't mean that overall we were better to have left though.

In a wide-ranging interview with la Repubblica, AZ CEO Pascal Soriot explainedd_:
It’s not a commitment we have to Europe: it’s a best effort, we said we are going to make our best effort. The reason why we said that is because Europe at the time wanted to be supplied more or less at the same time as the UK, even though the contract was signed three months later.

@marbellamarc the guy must be pissed off now they even tried to make up the 3 months.

@Frazzled2207 how can that be the case when its being made in india as well ? They haven't guessed how to do it and how would it be made in the eu plant as well without the sharing of the information ??

@Twillow you lost me at 'little britain'

I get there is an issue of components but it's a bit weird to expect shorter lead times unless huge upscale has been facilitated

It doesn't mean that overall we were better to have left though.

Well I think on a individual level it depends. My mum a European immigrant who lives her & has shielded for the last year is super happy to have had the vaccine. My dad in another European country also highly vulnerable is still waiting.

I've already lost a relative in a care home here so don't want to lose more.

And I am a remainer who always suspected there was some anti British bias in the EC but now have seen it in all its glory. They don’t care about their member states as illustrated with what they just did to Ireland.

It's not an issue that is going to change my mind on brexit, but it is a spectacular blunder by the politicians at the top of the EU. It seems that they believed they could use political pressure to get themselves out of a sticky situation but it has collapsed around them because:

a) their claims on the contract are not actually backed up by the actual contract which is plastered with vague terms and clauses designed to avoid AZ making a direct commitment to supply doses in a certain amount by a certain date from. This is no surprise given the challenges in production.
b) there are widely reported technical challenges with starting up a new production facility for the vaccine. The UK's production facilities experienced the same issues and vaccine delivery was delayed. Other companies are experiencing similar production delays too. The EU are reacting like this because member states are disappointed that they are behind the UK in progress after being prevented from concluding deals with AZ earlier.
c) the EU's attempt to use Article 16 is a major diplomatic snafu, both in the fact that it was attempted, but also how it was gone about. This has given the Johnson government a huge amount of ammunition and also showed division in the EU as Ireland feels snubbed.

Not the EU's finest hour for sure.

Though the EU lasts a thousand years...this was not their finest hour!

The EU made a mistake which it corrected swiftly but Boris Johnson threatened to do exactly the same thing two weeks ago and no Brexiteers were protesting then:

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/watch-we-will-have-no-hesitation-in-triggering-article-16-if-necessary-says-boris-johnson-39964412.html

@Tobleronehouses was his not in direct answer to a question though as opposed to actually doing , and pretty sure he cannot trigger on his own, would it not have to go through.
But the eu made a mistake , a big mistake as they have bee the ones all along insisting how important this was.