Friend went snooping

[Sunnyshades5]

I'm really close to a man who's changed his whole life around in the last year! He went through years of struggle that led to bad choices and he ended up in hospital. I won't go into huge details.

He's months and months sober.
Earning good money and working 5-6 solid days a week.
He's rescued a dog as part of his recovery. The dog gives him something positive and keeps him company.
He's skilled in what he does and is always getting offers for work. He's popular and seems to be supported alot. He also reaches out to anyone struggling and offers to tell them how he did it. He often gets contacted because he really has turned around.

We didn't plan to become close. But we met through a friend and developed an instant friendship. We are several months into a really close friendship. It's cups of tea and conversations. I can call him anytime. He can call me. We catch up everyday and once life resumes more we will probably go out and about places. Overall he's just lovely and I think the world of him. We help eachother with anything the other can't do.

I know his story. He's told me all the details. Why it happened. What happened. How it ended. He also told me part of his recovery is to be honest about his past. He told me he was terrified of meeting new people and opening up. But he felt safe talking to me and I know it was a massive thing telling me.

My best friend was curious about him as we've been close a while now. So I told her all his good points. Told her he's had some struggles and kept his story private mostly.

She went digging. I think her heart was in the right place. But her husband works in the same Industry and she sent him to work to dig out info. She then text me to ask if I was free for a walk.

I went to meet her. She asked to see his photo. Then she told me her husband had found out he's a p**s head. He's done this and that. She told me everything he had openly told me. I thanked her for caring. Told her he's not hiding anything. He's told me in detail everything she just said. I then said all I can say is he's like this now. He's turned his life around. He didn't want to be that person. He didn't enjoy being that person. He's trying to lead a normal life now and whilst I can't say he never will relapse he's currently living a normal life.

I'm just upset with it. People love gossip. People find it so easy to judge. To Tear someone to pieces. I fully expected one day my friend would meet him. But now she's made me feel like she's written him off. I just feel she had no right to snoop. Go fishing for information. Go discussing me with men who do not know me. What if it gets back to my friend. How is he supposed to feel?

How would you feel? I do understand people would have seen him when he was poorly and that will be their view on him. But I still feel my friend had no right.

Good friend my arse. Couldnt wait to cause some drama. Who sends their husband to work to dig up some dirt- he should be losing his job for a start.

OP you come across as incredibly naive and potentially easy to manipulate, so I completely understand why your friend is so concerned. Overly intense relationships when you’re only a few months sober (so the very very early stages of the journey) are actively discouraged. It’s also worrying that he seems to have set himself up as a guru when he’s only in kindergarten stage himself.

He’s clearly someone who can speak with zeal—like others have said, the zeal of the reformed addict. However you need to remember that there is a very high chance this reform effort won’t stick this time, and whatever terrible things he has done in the past—you notably refuse to mention them, do they include violence?—he may very well end up doing again in the next few months.

Don’t burn bridges with your other friends. People who have addict pasts sometimes have an addictive way of engaging with others. It sounds like he is forming these over intense “bonds” with others too.

Your friend is only looking out for you. She’s told you the truth about the guy as you said she told you exactly what the guy told you. So your friend didn’t embellish or exaggerate

Her motive was you not to gossip or tear down this guy. Her motive was to protect you

So YABU in your OP

Now IF this guy can stay sober snd you friend still talks about him being a puss head, that’s a different matter.

You should verse yourself in the topic of alcoholism to try to understand what may happen with this relationship you’re building with this guy. Be prepared and understand what you’re possibly getting into.

But yeah it does have to be years clear of addiction before you can say anything has changed. I've been clear of heroin addiction of 4 years but decided (mutually with somebody) to end a relationship because it felt dodgy with that and them having kids, it still felt too soon and there are still inevitably old, unpleasant connections and issues. People think because its drink and everybody does it you should be more liberal, but drink is the most destructive drug going of all IMO.

I'll be 100% honest here. Your "new friend" could be my husband. He sounds identical, so might actually be him. I left him shortly after our DC was born because his supposed 'recovery' stopped and I had a much more important person to look after so finally stopped putting him and his needs first in my life. I can see now that he's an absolute clusterfuck of a person who swings between cycles of out and out addiction and functional addiction. When he's in a functional state it's very easy for him to fool people who aren't used to his cycles. He's intelligent, charming (to people who aren't totally over him), knows how to make people feel good about themselves (it's lovebombing, it won't last if you get hooked). He's open about how terrible he was, about his regret for the awful ways he's behaved, how bad he feels for what he's put the people close to him through. (Unless they call him out on it, then he's vicious.) And he's not actually open about it, he tells a very, very select version of what happened and somehow his victims end up sounding like the bad guy, although he'll pretend to be very magnanimous about that.

So yeah, it's possible that your new friend is really recovered and regretful and is turning his life around. That does happen. But it's so very, very much more likely that he's in a functional phase of his addiction and looking for a new person to make him feel better about himself and bolster his delusion.

Wow....

Very clearly many of you have very strong opinions on recovered alcoholics and they are not positive at all.
Plenty of assumptions around wo knowing either the man or the OP.
You must all be living such perfect live.

No wonder said man is wary of ever talking about his past!

Your friend is looking out for you and it seems like she’s handled it in a tactful and sensitive way to me. I’d be thanking her. Obviously tell her he’s been up front with you but thank her for caring
But be very careful, it doesn’t sound like he’s been sober for long and is potentially using you as a prop right now as it sounds very intense. Also turning your life around doesn’t mean it’s going to stick, the opportunity for relapse is everywhere. Has he had counselling to deal with the issues which led to his alcohol addiction? I’d tread very very carefully

My brother was an alcoholic, stopped drinking in his 30's and was a truly different person. He met a girl, got married and had two kids.

Twice he went back on the drink again, almost dying both times. They split up two years ago and this time the drink did kill him.

Just be careful, eight months is a very short time for an alcoholic to be sober.

Op have you posted about this man before? Was he violent, and even violent to a partner?

Why did she ask to see his picture to validate it was him? This indicates whatever her husband found his picture was against it. Is there crime involved?

You are very defensive OP! And in that situation I would absolutely do the same as your friend.

Very clearly many of you have very strong opinions on recovered alcoholics and they are not positive at all.

I think people who have fought against alcoholism and are winning the war are amazing. I think after a few months it's a huge assumption to make that this man is 'recovered'. He is 'recovering' at most.

You must all be living such perfect live.

On the contrary, my life is pretty fucked up thanks to my alcoholic father. This is what makes me wary of alcoholics - it's also why I admire those who genuinely tackle their problem. But experience suggests that often the drink is stronger and wins the war, whilst losing the occasional battle.

I'm going against the grain. Your friend sounds horrible labelling people in such a nasty way. Of course you need to be cautious as with any relationship. But it seems this man has been honest with you.

@Viviennemary

I'm going against the grain. Your friend sounds horrible labelling people in such a nasty way. Of course you need to be cautious as with any relationship. But it seems this man has been honest with you.

How did she label him? The op has clearly stated what she said was accurate, so how is that labelling him in a nasty way?

If there is also a chance this man is guilty of domestic abuse as well the friend is totally right to be worried and the op very wrong to try to hide it.

OP, I'm in a similar position except my friend has been drug free about 10 years now. He works hard, is well respected, counsels others in a similar position and we have become good friends. I don't see anything wrong with what you are doing but I do always have in the back of my head that my friend could relapse. We aren't as close as you and your friend seem to be but we are good friends. My friend has other friends too - does your friend solely rely on you?

She knows him better than any of you

OP, yes your friend could be enjoying the drama or the gossip. I don't know her so wouldn't know but she also could have your back here.

As others have said you only know what this guy is allowing you to.
Alcoholics are often repentant for stuff they've done in the past and will tell you they have so much regret, shame, embarrassment etc...they are speaking as a sober person.
The drunk them thinks/feels/acts differently.
Sobriety is relative and some alcoholics stop and never touch a drop again but sadly many do and will relapse many times.
That's not to say your new friend doesn't deserve encouragement, support and some cheering on because he does deserve that but just remain cautious and don't enmesh yourself too much.
I lived with a recovering/relapsing alcoholic for a long while and I left the shit show he liked us to live in.

Addicts and alcoholics are often very intense and exciting people to be around. It might be worth considering whether you’re particularly attracted to the drama. All this rescuing (him with the dog, you with him) sounds very noble and worthy but it can be a touch unhealthy too. Particularly if you’re subconsciously trying to fix something from your childhood.

I’m concerned that you are so threatened by your friend, who is clearly looking out for your best interests. That’s not really a level headed response and strongly suggests that you are conflicted about this man, at some level.

I get the sense that you really need to believe in this man. Sometimes people really need to believe in religion. Some people really believe in a cause. But it can be valuable to try and understand why it matters so much to you to believe in him. The sense of righteousness, nobility, etc that comes with strong belief hides the roots of the need to believe which are usually hurt or trauma.

There’s a world of difference between believing someone, and needing to believe someone and it’s your strong reaction to your friend that suggests that needing to believe in him is linked to some deeper vulnerability.

Please proceed carefully.

@ParadiseIsland

Wow....

Very clearly many of you have very strong opinions on recovered alcoholics and they are not positive at all.
Plenty of assumptions around wo knowing either the man or the OP.
You must all be living such perfect live.

No wonder said man is wary of ever talking about his past!

No I don't live a perfect life, far from but I was parented by alcoholics and then had a LT relationship with one. Which is where my possible negativity comes from. I've lived it twice around. It doesn't mean I view all alcoholics in the same way. I can only comment on my experiences. There's many that don't cause absolute devastation and carnage within their relationships and many that do quit and remain sober. I experienced the opposites of both.

I don’t understand why your friend effectively did a background check on your new friend. Either she is a trouble maker or she has genuine concerns about your judgement in forming new relationships and setting boundaries.

Other pp are right, it’s impossible to completely trust an addict even when they are clean. The trust builds over time and yes it does take more than a year for the fog of addiction to lift. He is still in a risky stage. That’s why he would have been advised not form new and deep emotional relationships. It’s debatable that he is mentally in a position to do that in a healthy way. And it does sound like both of you have gone too far too soon given his problems. Which are current and not in the past.

Your friend is looking out for you. Simple as that. She’s heard some dodgy, threatening stuff about this man and it happened recently (pre recovering, but recent enough to show he’s not there yet).

The fact that you’re so incensed about this shows you’ve been captivated by someone charming and perhaps manipulative - the intensity belies a deep need in you. Addiction can also involve codependency.

Don’t be cross with your friend - take pause and self-reflect.

@user1471565182

Good friend my arse. Couldnt wait to cause some drama. Who sends their husband to work to dig up some dirt- he should be losing his job for a start.

You’re assuming he did something unprofessional and unethical that compromises his integrity at work. And that’s a big assumption. He works in the same industry as the op’s new friend and it’s entirely possible he just asked mutual acquaintances and the guy’s history is well known, especially if the ‘bad things’ interfered with his work or are of a criminal nature. Eg, if someone asked me about one particular ex-colleague of mine, I could tell them he was an alcoholic, had a drink-driving conviction, was reported to our regulatory body for being drunk on duty and had convictions for public order offences. All publicly available information and my telling them would not be a sackable offence.

It sounds like you've already been placed in the role of Rescuer with this man, which is why you are so indignant on his behalf. Thats a red flag.

If you aren't familiar with the Karpman Drama Triangle look into it. Victim, Persecutor, Rescuer is an unhealthy relationship dynamic that is common with substance abuse. Its one reason why addicts are not supposed to enter into new relationships in the early stages of recovery.

@Bellofbelfastcity

Your friend is just looking out for you.

Your new friend is very unlikely to stay sober in the long term. Only a small number of alcoholics manage to do this.

Do you know what the statistics are for ex addicts that stay long-term sober?

You sound quite obsessed with him, sounds quite an intense and codependent “friendship” to be honest.

I think thr op fundamentally didn’t want her friend to know what and who this man is and was and that’s why she’s annoyed. She said she’d only said his good points, and other than say he’s had his struggles left it there. So basically painted a rosey picture.

I don’t really understand the whole works in the same industry thing, this statement “He's told me all the details. Why it happened. What happened. How it ended” indicates it’s about more than alcoholism. And could be he has violently abused a woman as pps are saying.