@DeaconBoo
Rooty feel free to come and dip into the FWR threads as sometimes these all-encompassing ones are a bit scattergun. Or start your own!
I'd say put on a tin hat but AIBU is far worse in that regard.
Some of the threads are about specific court cases/issues that might need a bit of back story but it's a great way of getting the lie of the land.
I didn't go on the Feminism boards for years when I first joined MN. Thought it'd be dry and esoteric. The amount of shit women still get handed every day has sadly proven me wrong. If you're interested in social justice at all it's v handy and the posters there are great.
Re mental health condition. I can see the argument for 'unmedicalising' an 'identity'. Points to discuss: What would be the consequences for arguing that Gender Dysphoria isn't a requirement to identify as trans? (General question, not directed at you specifically).
What is 'trans' if not/in addition to unhappiness with your gender? What does gender even mean in this sense? Is the root of this dysphoria worth looking into?
How would de-medicalising it affect access to healthcare (in the US it can be the case that something being classed a 'mental health' condition vs a physical one means it isn't covered by some health insurance plans).
Should there even be any kind of gatekeeping to changing legal gender? What is the current requirement? (Accounts differ on how onerous this is)
Thanks Deacon. I've always been 'interested' in trans, if you will, but as some of the other posters pointed out I've come at it from a place, an age and a generation where our automatic reaction is to stick up for people to be who they are, etc etc. I had no idea about any of this twitter stuff. I did dip my toe into the JKR stuff, but soon escaped.
I think where the problem comes is that when people are passionate about something, which in this case is womens rights, the go to response if YOU'RE WRONG, YOU'RE MISOGYNISTIC, YOU KNOW NOTHING. and the other side automatically goes to YOU'RE A TRANSPHOBE. And we get nowhere. I stuck it out yesterday because in between the ducking and diving, I read some fantastic posts, learned a great deal to be honest, and my frustration late last night this morning came because new posters, or lurkers, were jumping on to highlight a sentence I'd said 23 pages ago so that more people could discuss it despite the fact I'd already conceded that i needed to learn about that particular area.
I do understand that your (not you directly, but all of the posters) job is not to educate me, but coming as someone who as I debated in an earlier post, doesn't spend a lot of time on twitter, doesn't do a lot of research, partly as I work and have my own very complicated life to deal with, I'm coming at these issues as someone who is going purely from what I see in the world. And as a human being, if you engage in a topic and people shut you down and abuse you (I'm talking early doors and the shit plopper this morning, everyone else has been fantastic, even the ones who disagree with me), your human reaction is to dig your heels in further, really isn't it.
I digress. I think my uncomfortableness, if you will, is that the original mental health condition debate on these threads came wrapped up in transgender as a 'concept', being completely denied. I originally read it as it's "just" a mental health condition (I say those words with trepidation, given the previous problems with this expression). But what i mean by that, is that when you put something as "just " anything, you don't look at what causes it. Do these young people, for example, feel they are trans because it is a mental health issue? or is it social media? Or is it the influence of these nutters on twitter and in mermaids and the like? Or is it related to autism, particularly in girls? Or is it a 'feeling'? What is it? None of us know this, because we are not trans. And even if we were, it's different for everyone.
That relates to your question. To me personally, I believe(d) that gender dysphoria is being unhappy with your identity, or non binary, but not necessarily "wanting" to "be" the other sex which falls under trans. I might be wrong in this regard, I'm sure someone will tell me if I am.
Gender is such a difficult thing in this day and age that the whole thing becomes so complicated.
My understanding of the current process is that you have to live as the other sex for a year before you can be considered for treatment. I'm fairly sure, although I'd have to look, that it used to be longer. WHen I'm ranting on about people not being allowed in changing rooms, these are the people I'm thinking about. Not someone who has lived as transgender their whole life. The person going through the year, presumably still feeling those feelings of not being who they are /accepted (I'm being careful here as this caused a stink earlier when people said it either was a mental health condition or it wasn't, whereas my point would be the fact that being transgender may CAUSE issues in terms of confidence, anxiety, moods etc that doesn't necessarily make it a mental health condition, if you will) , that they then are being put into a space different from everyone else.
I have read various versions of children being given treatment, but my understanding is that hormones cannot start until age 16.