AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question - Thread 3

[Thewithesarehere]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:

“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

You have said more than once about my lack of feminist thought or made reference to me being uneducated.

I said you didn't have a feminist analysis and that I felt you were uninformed about element of this issue. That's all. It has nothing to do with academia. I'm not an academic!

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Pick out a sentence and jump on it

I felt it was uncalled for and rude, just like you cherry picked a couple of my observations out of a longer post I made.

I don't think it was. You continue to make out I'm pro trans and pro men and painting myself as the patron saint of the thread when I've been far more honest about my own triggere, motivations and downfalls than those who just sneer at me because I'm so misinformed.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

You have said more than once about my lack of feminist thought or made reference to me being uneducated.

I said you didn't have a feminist analysis and that I felt you were uninformed about element of this issue. That's all. It has nothing to do with academia. I'm not an academic!

I would absolutely consider myself a feminist. I have a sociology degree.

Feminists come from all walks of life.

Do you think the likes of me learn from posts from you where you basically put us down, belittle us and continually make reference to us being uneducated helps us see your point or pushes us back to the other side?

You probably don't realise how your own posts come across.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Do you think the likes of me learn from posts from you where you basically put us down, belittle us and continually make reference to us being uneducated helps us see your point or pushes us back to the other side?

You probably don't realise how your own posts come across.

Back at you.

I would absolutely consider myself a feminist.

Yes, lots of people do. Not all of them objectively are. This is a general observation, not a dig at you, but obviously people can identify themselves however they like.

Back at you.

Thing is, we can do this all day. But it's not the mature, reasonable, constructive conversation you said you wanted.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I would absolutely consider myself a feminist.

Yes, lots of people do. Not all of them objectively are. This is a general observation, not a dig at you, but obviously people can identify themselves however they like.

Numerous trans activists claim to be 'feminists' - its just become another way to try to appropriate words from the Women arguing against them. It has no meaning in their mouths.

@Ereshkigalangcleg lets move on and not derail.

I don't think I'm a devils advocate. I only got stuck in the middle this page with FB, on the last thread I was outnumbered 3 to 1 on each post! I just see both sides. I can't help that. It would be dishonest of me to pretend otherwise.

I'll apologise for the comment about my motivations. That was uncalled for. But I do get upset when people try and make out I think I'm this wonderful patron saint of everything or alternatively that I'm totally biased and Pro men. I have explained my reasons for seeing the other side and they affect me.

@Impatiens same argument as with tw. Who decides who is a feminist and who isnt.

Numerous trans activists claim to be 'feminists' - its just become another way to try to appropriate words from the Women arguing against them. It has no meaning in their mouths.

Exactly. And other sexists/misogynists of all gender identities.

Rooty I really think you have misunderstood Eresh here. You and I have had a robust debate on here and you later agreed that you could see some of the points I was making. Eresh is just doing the same thing. You don't have to agree with her but it's nothing personal honestly.
If all the regulars in FWR were in a room, I would be the one in the corner wearing a hat with a D on it. I have never been made to feel inferior or uneducated by any of them. I understand that they are just putting their points across. Everyone is welcome to debate here and I hope you continue to do so.

@DialSquare

Rooty I really think you have misunderstood Eresh here. You and I have had a robust debate on here and you later agreed that you could see some of the points I was making. Eresh is just doing the same thing. You don't have to agree with her but it's nothing personal honestly. If all the regulars in FWR were in a room, I would be the one in the corner wearing a hat with a D on it. I have never been made to feel inferior or uneducated by any of them. I understand that they are just putting their points across. Everyone is welcome to debate here and I hope you continue to do so.

Thanks Dial. Appreciate that from you.

Let's move on @Ereshkigalangcleg?

It's OK, youl get peace at 6 as I'll be off to watch the Barrowman on Dancing on Ice

[quote RootyT00t]@Impatiens same argument as with tw. Who decides who is a feminist and who isnt.[/quote]
Men probably

rooty

Are you aware that kids as young as 3 have been showing up at the clinics?

That there's been a 4400 percent increase in girls?

That we have pretty much single handedly funded churches etc desperately trying to ensure that the processes that the kids are put through are thoroughly examined and that the evidence fir it all exists and that there's proof it is actually beneficial to the children.

That the risks and the side effects etc are all known .

I'm.confused as to why you accuse people on a parenting site if not caring about children when we are fighting against people who want to remove safeguarding all together.

We have great sympathy for all the youngsters we do. If we didbt then we wouldn't sitting back ajd letting them carry on taking drugs meant for the treatment of prostate cancer used off lave in untried ajd untested ways .

Believe it or not this is all about the safety and well being if children

RootyT00t
A female toilet to you is a place of safety and privacy. To them, it's a place of being accepted. Neither is more important than the other. IMO.

I don't know if you realise it, but what you have said there is that the fear of not being part of a particular group is as important as the fear of being raped/sexually assaulted.

I very much agree with you that the whole thing is divisive; but the stakes are very different on the two sides of the divide.

and refuse to understand why they want in toilets other than to be a threat.

I think they’ve already explained, it’s not just about potential threat. Some women don’t want males in female only spaces.

They don’t want to get undressed, be examined by or share a toilet with males. Regardless of how they dress, grow their hair, what medication they take or operations they have. They are not comfortable being near males in those situations.

A female toilet to you is a place of safety and privacy. To them, it's a place of being accepted
As I said for another post on another thread, it is hard to squash so much previledge in one tiny post.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

RootyT00t A female toilet to you is a place of safety and privacy. To them, it's a place of being accepted. Neither is more important than the other. IMO.

I don't know if you realise it, but what you have said there is that the fear of not being part of a particular group is as important as the fear of being raped/sexually assaulted.

I very much agree with you that the whole thing is divisive; but the stakes are very different on the two sides of the divide.

That, I get.

[quote RootyT00t]@Impatiens same argument as with tw. Who decides who is a feminist and who isnt.[/quote]
Well a man isn't. And a TW who argues for policies that have a negative impact on the safety and equality of Women definitely isn't.

same argument as with tw. Who decides who is a feminist and who isnt.

For me:

A woman is an adult human female, it's simply the word for it like "doe", "mare".

A feminist is someone who stands up for the rights of women and girls, and acknowledges the oppression they face based on their sex. It's not about either hating men or pandering to them, in and of itself. It's simply a rights movement that centres women and girls, as 51% of the population, and the issues affecting us. Some of these overlap with issues facing males, many do not.

Transgender ideology and politics is built on regressive ideas of both sexes and sex role stereotypes. It isn't remotely helpful to women and girls oppressed on the basis of their sexed bodies and the expectations flowing from them. Gender dysphoria is a medical condition which again, is not the responsibility of women to manage.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

RootyT00t A female toilet to you is a place of safety and privacy. To them, it's a place of being accepted. Neither is more important than the other. IMO.

I don't know if you realise it, but what you have said there is that the fear of not being part of a particular group is as important as the fear of being raped/sexually assaulted.

I very much agree with you that the whole thing is divisive; but the stakes are very different on the two sides of the divide.

Exactly. I couldn't believe what I was reading there, clearly safety is more important or am I going mad?

Um, transpeople do not typically walk around in denial. It's very hard to do that when you're jabbing yourself with needles everyday and have a giant uncomfortable implant in your arm. My sd knows she's a biological male and has no issues owning up to her transness in appropriate circumstances. In fact, she currently only dates other transwomen. There is a whole group of them out there in the world, living their lives and being trans. It's VERY scary.

Do you think if society were more accepting of trans people that those appropriate circumstances could be all the time?

@Whatwouldscullydo

rooty

Are you aware that kids as young as 3 have been showing up at the clinics?

That there's been a 4400 percent increase in girls?

That we have pretty much single handedly funded churches etc desperately trying to ensure that the processes that the kids are put through are thoroughly examined and that the evidence fir it all exists and that there's proof it is actually beneficial to the children.

That the risks and the side effects etc are all known .

I'm.confused as to why you accuse people on a parenting site if not caring about children when we are fighting against people who want to remove safeguarding all together.

We have great sympathy for all the youngsters we do. If we didbt then we wouldn't sitting back ajd letting them carry on taking drugs meant for the treatment of prostate cancer used off lave in untried ajd untested ways .

Believe it or not this is all about the safety and well being if children

I didn't say they don't care about children, I will apologise if it seemed that way.

God it's a multi faceted issue eh?

[quote RootyT00t]@Impatiens same argument as with tw. Who decides who is a feminist and who isnt.[/quote]
Feminism has a long history :) it isn't a title that can be claimed unless one has really understood that. Some feminists have been driven out of feminism because it has stopped meaning woman centred. There are moves to start up another form of activism that IS woman centred. But who decides really is the person who lays claim, they have to be able to back up their arguments. As in all things.