AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question - Thread 3

[Thewithesarehere]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:

“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

If you don t like I truly and honest, from of my heart, do not care.

Exactly. That's the truth of it underneath all the attempts to dress it up and justify - people who want to force Women to accept TW in their spaces just don't care about the damage they're doing.

@Thewithesarehere

you can expect all you want but in a public space you don t get to control that, so it is what it is Are you saying women toilets are public spaces? Why are men’s toilets and changing room not public spaces then?

Unless I've misplaced my club jacket and members card somewhere, yes. Public toilets are public spaces. The clue is in the name.

You can expect all you want but in a public space you don t get to control that

It's a female only public space. I've never got to control whether males come in, they can always barge their way in there. But it's about decency. Any male who doesn't give a shit about the privacy and dignity and feelings of women and girls and thinks it's all about them is not a decent person. Women and girls are not props in male lives. Most women don't want males, any of them, in female spaces.

It's nice that you think a reasonable response is that they can't do anything about it, so tough. Really empathic.

Exactly. That's the truth of it underneath all the attempts to dress it up and justify - people who want to force Women to accept TW in their spaces just don't care about the damage they're doing.

YY.

@Impatiens

If you don t like I truly and honest, from of my heart, do not care.

Exactly. That's the truth of it underneath all the attempts to dress it up and justify - people who want to force Women to accept TW in their spaces just don't care about the damage they're doing.

Got it in one. You don't care about the damage being done to my child, why should I care about yours?

@RaidersoftheLostAardvark

There is no evidence that medical or surgical transition improves mental health. The Tavistock's own data showed an increase in distress during medical treatment. The suicide rate for adult trans people who have transitioned is still high. This is believed to be due to their very high level of other mental health issues. So to claim that transitioning reduces suicide is not evidence based.

In terms of criminal behaviour, trans males show patterns of offending in line with other males- no changes. In the UK there are more trans male murderers then trans murder victims in the past 10 years (and several cases of a trans person being murdered by another trans person). I'd love to see a serious documentary about trans offending patterns but sadly that would be censored (unlike the recent BBC radio program on women sex offenders- which made on attempt to unpick which offenders were female vs trans male)

In terms of criminal behaviour, trans males show patterns of offending in line with other males- no changes.

There is absolutely no evidence of this whatsoever.

(and I know you will now point me to a study carried out in Sweden based on 50 year old data in some cases and just 14 crimes. And I will point out that the author of that study has repeatedly claimed that the study wasn't intended to measure criminality amongst trans people compared to non trans people which is why they didn't control for things like poverty).

It's not really the way to get more societal acceptance for trans people, either, saying "my lovely trans person's feelings are all that matter, we don't give a fuck about the feelings of the other people involved". Rather short sighted.

@Fastedbrownie
I know they are.
I am just asking why some public spaces are more public than others? As in, all people are born equal, but some are more equal than others.
Surely your DC is a born male. Why should my daughter have to face his presence in the toilet? Or in changing rooms? Or in her girl guides activities, including in her tent without my knowledge!)?
Why are some places more public than others? Just because they belong to women? What about my daughter’s feelings?

You can expect all you want but in a public space you don t get to control that, so it is what it is

So if we see blokes coming into women's spaces in a public space, where the space is clearly marked for women, we should just accept that we don't get to control what goes on in public space, so it is what it is?

So my friend with the beard and all those who look like my friend with the beard, can just use whatever space they want and we all just have to accept that it is what it is?

So women don't have the right to ever be safe in public again? Because it is what it is?

Do you think Unicef are encouraging women's paranoia by trying to get single sex toilets in the developing world?

ideas4development.org/en/unexpected-link-access-toilets-womens-rights/

You don't care about the damage being done to my child, why should I care about yours?

It’s you @Fastedbrownie who has not shared any safety data on the puberty blockers her teen child started using under her watch.

You don't care about the damage being done to my child

No one here is responsible for the personal mental health of your stepchild, any more than you are responsible for mine. Males (generally) forcing themselves into female spaces against the will of women and girls isn't going to help them in the long run.

@Impatiens

And nobody is using women as human shields, they're just using the toilet. As I've said that several times, you disliking that is a personal problem. It has nothing to do with you.

Surely we must have got past the stage in this 'debate' where people claim this is about transwomen 'just wanting to pee'?

fastedbrownie

You say women are not being used as human shields and yet TW are not using the correct provision for their sex.

If you don t like I truly and honest, from of my heart, do not care.

Exactly. That's the truth of it underneath all the attempts to dress it up and justify - people who want to force Women to accept TW in their spaces just don't care about the damage they're doing.

Got it in one. You don't care about the damage being done to my child, why should I care about yours?

[quote Thewithesarehere]@jj1968
I also need to say this: you said “ actually many of them spent their entire time harassing and abusing individual trans people and supporters ”

You need to be extremely careful with your words because people can lose jobs abs even lives due to incorrect accusations.

If you don’t have solid proof (like in JK Rowling’s case, not even one person has been able to produce just one quote of hers that is anti-trans), you can face libel.[/quote]
Here's an essay explaining why Rowling's comments were anti-trans: katymontgomerie.medium.com/addressing-the-claims-in-jk-rowlings-justification-for-transphobia-7b6f761e8f8f

The person who wrote it has not been sued.

Sorry posted that without a comment.

I meant to say Yes, this.

Obv.

Got it in one. You don't care about the damage being done to my child, why should I care about yours?

What damage is being done to a child over a certain age using the correct sexed space? What damage are you talking about?

Are you talking safety? Because that's something we understand and that's why wonen fought fir single sex spaces in the first place but you cabt argue that the mens is unsafe then say the womens is safe then let in males making it mixed sex and ergo un safe for women?

Anyone who's ever had to clean a toilet has never been damaged by being in the "wrong one " what damage does the sign do exactly?

[quote Thewithesarehere]@Fastedbrownie
I know they are.
I am just asking why some public spaces are more public than others? As in, all people are born equal, but some are more equal than others.
Surely your DC is a born male. Why should my daughter have to face his presence in the toilet? Or in changing rooms? Or in her girl guides activities, including in her tent without my knowledge!)?
Why are some places more public than others? Just because they belong to women? What about my daughter’s feelings?[/quote]
Well, what about my daughter's feelings? You can't ask me to shed a tear for yours a breath after willfully disrespecting mine, so why don't you look out for yours and I'll look out for mine, and wherever societies chips fall is where they fall. It just so happens atm they're falling in our court. Yay for us. Wait 15 years and they'll shift again, they always do.

On the subject of who is doing the harassing on Twitter. I posted one comment about whether a particular political party considers women's rights when it says TWAW and I have had 24 hours of being stalked and harassed by TW. I have had to block several and mute the conversation. I've removed the twitter app from my phone because it was so persistent.

I've just seen this on Twitter. It is very sad

twitter.com/ImWatson91/status/1355612073724686341

@jj1968
What kind of logic is that? “JK Rowling hasn’t sued anyone for libel yet so there is no case for libel!”.
Any logic behind this?

jj1968 can you please point us to data which shows that transwomen's pattern of criminality differs from men's and is the same as that of women's?

So if we see blokes coming into women's spaces in a public space, where the space is clearly marked for women, we should just accept that we don't get to control what goes on in public space, so it is what it is?

Yes this is gloating and goady. This poster vaguely grasps that there are people doing this for less edifying reasons. But her stepchild is far more important than all the women and girls using them and must be coddled by us all as single sex spaces don't apply to them. No.

Well, what about my daughter's feelings? You can't ask me to shed a tear for yours a breath after willfully disrespecting mine

Would your daughter object to a third space which seems the most sensible compromise?

If not why does she put her feelings count more than those of the sex she identifies into?

Sorry the second sentence doesn't make sense, what i mean is

Why do her feelings count more than those of the people whose sex she identifies into ?

Why do her feelings count more than those of the people whose sex she identifies into ?

It's a good question.