AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question - Thread 3

[Thewithesarehere]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:

“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

So you acknowledge the fairplayforwomen site is being dishonest then?

In what way is it being dishonest?

@jj1968
Also, you seem to be talking about 161 children who were given puberty blockers.
Can you point me in the direction of the clinical trials that confirmed the safety profile of these drugs for this use?

My God, I could tell you an eerily similar story from the perspective of several of my sd's trans friends, but of course that doesn't matter because as per usual 'empathy and respect' is a one-way street.

That's terrible, of course. It has nothing to do with males using female sex spaces against the will of female people. Women are not human shields for anyone else.

@ScreamingBeans

This link is thoroughly dishonest. It uses the transgender population as a whole (0.2%) for the calculation without acknowledging that many, possibly as many as half, of that 0.2% are in fact trans men. All of those murdered were trans women.

What difference does it make that half the population may be transmen (that's very unlikely at this point btw)?

Do the murders of transmen not matter? Or are you claiming that transmen are murderers? Or what? I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

The use of the term 'hateful conduct' has absolutely no meaning in this context - people have been banned from twitter supposedly for that reason when all they've done is state biological truths.

No people claim to have been banned from twitter for stating 'biological truths' but actually many of them spent their entire time harassing and abusing individual trans people and supporters in direct contravention of twitter's policies on targetted harassment.

@jj1968 and @Fastedbrownie
Aaaanndd I am waiting to to see the data on puberty blockers please.

apologies @ScreamingBeans I didnt mean to quote you in that post but to answer your question all of the recorded murders being discussed were of trans women. So to claim trans people overall are likely to be murdered at the same rate as others deliberately obscures the fact that all of those murdered were trans women, which suggest that trans women are roughly twice as likely to be murered as the general population.

Not that it's a competition, but there is ample evidence of the violence and hostility that trans people face in society.

There are about only 17 people who disagree with this thread. We know at least two so far. Please can the rest of you join this discussion?

many of them spent their entire time harassing and abusing individual trans people and supporters in direct contravention of twitter's policies on targetted harassment.

Not true.

They responded to people who harassed them.

Asking a question which someone refuses to answer is not harassment.

If it were, that Something of the Night Tory Leader whose name escapes me, could have sued Jeremy Paxman for harassment.

@jj1968
You said “ Not that it's a competition, but there is ample evidence of the violence and hostility that trans people face in society.”

Show me just one post from all three threads that says team rights should be ignored. Just one post please. In fact, there is a separate thread that is currently discussing the very point that we really need separate, trans-only spaces.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

My God, I could tell you an eerily similar story from the perspective of several of my sd's trans friends, but of course that doesn't matter because as per usual 'empathy and respect' is a one-way street.

That's terrible, of course. It has nothing to do with males using female sex spaces against the will of female people. Women are not human shields for anyone else.

And nobody is using women as human shields, they're just using the toilet. As I've said that several times, you disliking that is a personal problem. It has nothing to do with you.

On the flip side, I do think the language and black or white vitriol the tra activists use is disgusting.

If it were, that Something of the Night Tory Leader

Michael Howard?

As I've said that several times, you disliking that is a personal problem. It has nothing to do with you.

Yes it does. Why do you think we have single sex spaces in the first place? Why aren't all spaces badged as unisex?

So to claim trans people overall are likely to be murdered at the same rate as others deliberately obscures the fact that all of those murdered were trans women, which suggest that trans women are roughly twice as likely to be murered as the general population.

I don't understand how you are making that calculation, have read it three times and still don't understand it. Are you claiming that the same number of transmen are being murdered?

Channel 4 says the same and they are very sympathetic to transideology: www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk

@Ereshkigalangcleg

If it were, that Something of the Night Tory Leader

Michael Howard?

Ah yes, that's him, that's the one

@Thewithesarehere

There are about only 17 people who disagree with this thread. We know at least two so far. Please can the rest of you join this discussion?

I voted yanbu, because I don't believe that people should be banned for asking a question, so maybe don't twist the voting to suit your agenda when the question posed at its core has nothing to do with it.

On the flip side, I do think the language and black or white vitriol the tra activists use is disgusting.

There's no "flip side". I reasonably expect female spaces to be free from males. Many TRAs make death and rape threats against women they disagree with. It's not remotely comparable.

No people claim to have been banned from twitter for stating 'biological truths' but actually many of them spent their entire time harassing and abusing individual trans people and supporters in direct contravention of twitter's policies on targetted harassment.

I really don't know how you've got the gall to talk about when 'dishonesty' when you post stuff like this. Are you really going to pretend that trans activists never 'pile on' to GC posters or target them for a complaint campaign in order to get them banned?

During my time on twitter there were numerous bans, almost all women, where the tweet(s) in question were literally stating what I said - biological truths ie TWAM or that only women have cervixes.

@Winesalot

Not sure if this link has been posted, I am putting it wherever it seems to fit and it really does fit here.

It is long. But compelling as it relies on bringing together the issues. I like that it does include many trans activists who are often hated by the extremist trans activists.

But it is a good summary if you are new or if you have been following for a while.

@RootyT00t this might be interesting for you too.

@RootyT00t

You might be interested to know that many of the 'facts' in that video are untrue or highly contested. For example Ray Blanchard's autogynephilia theory which claims some trans women are motivated by sexual attraction to themselves and others are 'extreme homosexuals' with a naturally feminine essence has been widely discredited in peer reviewed literature and is not accepted by specialists in the field today - it's a decades old theory from the time when an understanding of trans people was in its infancy. Later work with trans people has not come to the conclusions Blanchard did.

But of course it does allow gender critical people to claim trans people are all either perverts or confused gays who don't know their own minds and that's why a decades old fringe scientific theory that had been largely laid to rest has been resurrected as the truth about the evil pervert trans.

@Impatiens

No people claim to have been banned from twitter for stating 'biological truths' but actually many of them spent their entire time harassing and abusing individual trans people and supporters in direct contravention of twitter's policies on targetted harassment.

I really don't know how you've got the gall to talk about when 'dishonesty' when you post stuff like this. Are you really going to pretend that trans activists never 'pile on' to GC posters or target them for a complaint campaign in order to get them banned?

During my time on twitter there were numerous bans, almost all women, where the tweet(s) in question were literally stating what I said - biological truths ie TWAM or that only women have cervixes.

Yes some trans people have been complete arseholes on social media too and many of them have also been banned from twitter.

They don't generally get given a column to complain about how they were silenced in the right wing press when it happened though.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

Dozer Until v recently there were regularly stories in the press about crappy NHS progress on getting rid of mixed sex wards. We’re going backwards on that, and addressing that should be a far higher priority.

If we went backwards just a little further, we would be back where we were during my teens and twenties, when the long-stay wards in my local hospital most emphatically were not mixed-sex, and were called "Women's Surgical 1 & 2" and "Men's Surgical 1 & 2". They were not even on the same floor of the hospital.

In 2006 when my eldest was 4 weeks old I had to be admitted to hospital for emergency gallbladder surgery.

The hospital was full and the only space was in a side room on a mens surgical ward. I had to sign a disclaimer to say I took accepted this and the risk to my safety and that of my baby who was with me as I was breastfeeding.

Now women will be bigoted for querying the presence of a male.

So my question is why was this a risk in 2006 and not now in 2021?
(not that I felt I was at risk in a separate room but the NHS thought there was one) What has changed?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

On the flip side, I do think the language and black or white vitriol the tra activists use is disgusting.

There's no "flip side". I reasonably expect female spaces to be free from males. Many TRAs make death and rape threats against women they disagree with. It's not remotely comparable.

You can expect all you want but in a public space you don t get to control that, so it is what it is. I'm going to keep doing what's best for my child in the exact same way you will do what is best for yours. If you don t like I truly and honest, from of my heart, do not care.

The vast majority of tra are not trans.

And nobody is using women as human shields, they're just using the toilet. As I've said that several times, you disliking that is a personal problem. It has nothing to do with you.

Surely we must have got past the stage in this 'debate' where people claim this is about transwomen 'just wanting to pee'?

@jj1968
I also need to say this: you said “ actually many of them spent their entire time harassing and abusing individual trans people and supporters ”

You need to be extremely careful with your words because people can lose jobs abs even lives due to incorrect accusations.

If you don’t have solid proof (like in JK Rowling’s case, not even one person has been able to produce just one quote of hers that is anti-trans), you can face libel.

you can expect all you want but in a public space you don t get to control that, so it is what it is
Are you saying women toilets are public spaces?
Why are men’s toilets and changing room not public spaces then?