AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question - Thread 3

[Thewithesarehere]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:

“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

Going back to the point about men taking women's roles and not being able to represent women properly, I was forcibly reminded of the necessity of women being at the table yesterday when listening to Money Box on Radio 4.

They were discussing the upcoming court case where women are taking the government to court because when they worked out how much to pay self-employed people who have been hit by Covid, they ignored the fact that some self employed women had a baby and took maternity leave in the 3 years leading up to Covid (which is what they worked the figures out on).

Instead of applying a formula to maternity leave which would assume women's earnings if they were working, they simply pretended that their income over that 3 years was representative of their normal income and worked the figures out that way. So any woman who is self employed who took maternity leave in the 3 years before Covid measures were enacted, has been seriously disadvantaged by not having had her maternity leave taken into account.

I don't think the government did this deliberately to shaft self-employed mothers. I think they did this because on the whole they are run by people who will never have to think about losing income when they reproduce. IE men.

Transactivists not only are unaffected by this, they forcefully tell women that discussing pregnancy and maternity in terms of women's rights, is transphobic.

So excuse me if I'm not convinced that a male woman's officer who then goes on to be a male parliamentary secretary who then goes on to be a male MP, is going to be much use to the majority of women.

@Winesalot

As in 'centre users who object to a male bodied transwoman in their changing room should be educated as to how not all women's bodies are the same' (or words to that effect).

Yes. I do find I have a problem with being told that women and girls who have very valid reasons for not wanting any male in their spaces should ‘deal with it’ because it is there problem. That a woman or girl’s distress is deprioritised because a male’s distress has the priority, regardless of how they pass. It is this ‘but my friend just wants to pee but can’t use the male space because ..’ so they come first. Also Forgetting all the other things that women and girls also do in the toilet that are not just peeing.

Because it's not distress, it's paranoia, and pandering to paranoia has never brought about anything positive in life. If you are truly distressed by somebody peeing in the locked stall beside you in a public toilet, that is your problem. It's not anybody else's, and I'm not going to make it my child's problem by insisting they move differently through the world to coddle your public space sensitivities.

[quote ScreamingBeans]Here's some more info about transgender murder rates:

More about murder rates:

fairplayforwomen.com/trans-murder-rates/[/quote]
This link is thoroughly dishonest. It uses the transgender population as a whole (0.2%) for the calculation without acknowledging that many, possibly as many as half, of that 0.2% are in fact trans men. All of those murdered were trans women.

The premise of this thread is equally dishonest. I'm only aware of one person banned from twitter after asking that question, thousands of times, to anyone trans supportive and then instigating a pile on of anyone who didn't give her the answer she demanded. She was banned for hateful conduct. We do not know what that hateful conduct was necessarily and there is no reason to assume she was banned for simply asking an innocent question. As I'm sure the mods on here are well aware there is often much more going on behind the scenes when people are banned from social media.

A relevant recent article
www.newscientist.com/article/mg24933190-700-gaslighting-warps-our-view-of-reality-how-to-spot-it-and-fight-back/

Because it's not distress, it's paranoia, and pandering to paranoia has never brought about anything positive in life. If you are truly distressed by somebody peeing in the locked stall beside you in a public toilet, that is your problem. It's not anybody else's, and I'm not going to make it my child's problem by insisting they move differently through the world to coddle your public space sensitivities.

Shame on you.

1 in 4 women are raped or sexually assaulted. 1 in 10 of those are stranger rapes. Almost 100% of women are sexually harassed at some point or another and multiple times.

It's not paranoia to be wary about the class of people who subject us to violence.

I'll give you a comparison. Years ago in the 80's when South London was a less liberal, tolerant place than it now is and I was very young and ignorant, I had a boyfriend who was black (I am white).

We wandered into a pub in Lewisham and as we were drinking he said quietly "hurry up, we can't stay here".

I had no idea what he was talking about. "Tell you when we get out".

I didn't argue because I assumed he had a good reason to want to get out of there. When we got out, he said he could tell immediately that it was the sort of place where black men weren't welcome and he was in danger (and by extension, so was I).

Do you think I should have told him that if he was paranoid, it was his problem and he should get over it?

Why are you so lacking in empathy and respect for women? You really seem to have internalised an awful lot of misogyny.

Am I being unreasonable thinking that hundreds of threads full of lies about trans people and accusing them of being mentally ill means the worlds biggest parenting website has created an environment in which trans parents, and supportive parents of trans children, are not welcome?

It's all coming out now isn't it. It would appear that only one group of people are allowed to be distressed and coddled in this conflict of interests.

@ScreamingBeans

Because it's not distress, it's paranoia, and pandering to paranoia has never brought about anything positive in life. If you are truly distressed by somebody peeing in the locked stall beside you in a public toilet, that is your problem. It's not anybody else's, and I'm not going to make it my child's problem by insisting they move differently through the world to coddle your public space sensitivities.

Shame on you.

1 in 4 women are raped or sexually assaulted. 1 in 10 of those are stranger rapes. Almost 100% of women are sexually harassed at some point or another and multiple times.

It's not paranoia to be wary about the class of people who subject us to violence.

I'll give you a comparison. Years ago in the 80's when South London was a less liberal, tolerant place than it now is and I was very young and ignorant, I had a boyfriend who was black (I am white).

We wandered into a pub in Lewisham and as we were drinking he said quietly "hurry up, we can't stay here".

I had no idea what he was talking about. "Tell you when we get out".

I didn't argue because I assumed he had a good reason to want to get out of there. When we got out, he said he could tell immediately that it was the sort of place where black men weren't welcome and he was in danger (and by extension, so was I).

Do you think I should have told him that if he was paranoid, it was his problem and he should get over it?

Why are you so lacking in empathy and respect for women? You really seem to have internalised an awful lot of misogyny.

I could almost laugh at how lacking in self-awareness this is. My God, I could tell you an eerily similar story from the perspective of several of my sd's trans friends, but of course that doesn't matter because as per usual 'empathy and respect' is a one-way street. Take, take, take but never give.

jj1968 no such connection was made.

This link is thoroughly dishonest. It uses the transgender population as a whole (0.2%) for the calculation without acknowledging that many, possibly as many as half, of that 0.2% are in fact trans men. All of those murdered were trans women.

What difference does it make that half the population may be transmen (that's very unlikely at this point btw)?

Do the murders of transmen not matter? Or are you claiming that transmen are murderers? Or what? I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

Am I being unreasonable thinking that hundreds of threads full of lies about trans people and accusing them of being mentally ill means the worlds biggest parenting website has created an environment in which trans parents, and supportive parents of trans children, are not welcome?

You could start a thread to find out?

jj1968 do you think transwomen like this one, should be allowed to shower next to a 7 year old girl and get changed in the same changing room as teenage girls?

Let me guess. The money trail leads to Jewish billionaires right? At least mumsnet is finally doing something about the growing antisemitism in the gender critical movement

Jews have produced a huge number of Nobel laureates in the last few decades who will be flabbergasted at the absolute lack of critical thinking in your thought process.

@jj1968
You need to stop thinking like a conspiracy theorist and start thinking like a scientist.

All of those murdered were trans women.

Most murder victims are male. Most murderers are male. Male on male violence is a huge problem globally.

[quote Thewithesarehere]When I was 15, I had absolutely no idea about the world though I considered myself clever. Girls at 15 are under far too much pressure already. If I had been given a choice, I would definitely have gone to get puberty blockers.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9203765/Trans-children-coached-giving-answers-access-puberty-blockers-Court-Appeal-hears.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=1490[/quote]
Just 161 under 18 were proscribed blockers in the most recent year we have data for. That's around one in 200,000 children. Are you sure you would have been one of those?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

All of those murdered were trans women.

Most murder victims are male. Most murderers are male. Male on male violence is a huge problem globally.

So you acknowledge the fairplayforwomen site is being dishonest then? How wonder how many more lies and exaggerations have been posted in these three threads in an effort to radicalise people aginst trans women.

The premise of this thread is equally dishonest. I'm only aware of one person banned from twitter after asking that question, thousands of times, to anyone trans supportive and then instigating a pile on of anyone who didn't give her the answer she demanded. She was banned for hateful conduct

What a sly way to spin that. Yes, the question was asked repeatedly because it's considered a crucial benchmark - people who claim to be totally fine with the claim that TWAW should be able to easily answer 'yes' to the question.

People 'supportive' of trans - you mean trans activists who constantly targeted Staniland with tweets about her being 'obsessed' with penis' or teenaged girls in an attempt to shut her up? The absolute hypocrisy of talking about instigating a 'pile on'!

The use of the term 'hateful conduct' has absolutely no meaning in this context - people have been banned from twitter supposedly for that reason when all they've done is state biological truths.

@jj1968
If I had known there was a chance to stop my body doing what it was doing? Yes, absolutely.

Just 161 under 18 were proscribed blockers in the most recent year we have data for.

161 children were given drugs with huge side-effects! Why aren't you shocked by that?

So you acknowledge the fairplayforwomen site is being dishonest then? How wonder how many more lies and exaggerations have been posted in these three threads in an effort to radicalise people aginst trans women.
You really, really need to read a comment at least ONCE to understand what it says. Before replying to it!

The vote is reassuring.

Transwomen should be provided for and third spaces allocated if they do not want to forced to share with other men.

However transwomen are not women. Sex is not a social construct and it can not be changed. Identify as whatever gender you want but leave women spaces/sports/refuges/prisons etc..alone.

So you acknowledge the fairplayforwomen site is being dishonest then?

In what sense? Are they claiming most murder victims are female? I doubt it.