To not christen my son

[justlonelystars]

Posted here for traffic!

My DH is catholic and I am an atheist. Although we’ve agreed to raise our DS to make his own mind up about religion my DH would like to christen our DS (catholic christening) for two reasons

1. It would mean a lot to him and his family
2. There is a v prestigious catholic school near our house and being christened might help DS chances to get in to this school

Now here’s my issue - and I mean no offence to anyone here who is catholic. I bloody hate the Catholic Church and everything it stands for. But I’m worried that I am indulging my own prejudices and opinions at the expense of opportunities for my DS (e.g. the school).

So as not to massively drip feed, my DH is not a practising catholic, hasn’t stepped foot in a church since I met him, but believes in god and identifies as catholic. He is pretty laid back and agreed to a non religious ceremony for our wedding and would also let me have my own way on the christening (or lack of). However, it’s the issue above that’s worrying me - am I letting my own opinions get in the way of what’s best for DS?

AIBU - yes christen him
AINBU - nah don’t do it!

Seems a bit hypocritical to want to christen the child when he doesn't even attend church tbh

My 2 DS have not been christened. Not our choice to make! They are now 21 and 19 and have no plans to be christened and the elder one is an atheist.

YANBU.

My in-laws are Catholic, husband was christened, did church duties, but as far as I have been with him (over a decade) he has never stepped foot in it unless he has to. I’m not religious whatsoever but went to Christmas service with his mother and sister out of respect while he went to the pub. When I saw he wasn’t bothered, I realised I didn’t have to. We talked about our views before we became engaged and both agreed we wanted our children to choose for themselves. My parents let me choose and I wanted the same for our children. Married, had our first child, and said we weren’t christening him thought it was understood and heard no fuss about it. It was brought up with our second and we said why would we christen one child when we didn’t do the other. Few months passed and husband admitted out of annoyance that his mother had been badgering him about not christening them off and on since the first. We never said we were going to so why she thought we would when her own son wasn’t even going to church and hasn’t in years made no sense to me. Found out it was the done thing in her area, but since we don’t live there and even if we did, still wouldn’t have. Plus, I thought it would be massively hypocritical and disrespectful towards our children and the religion itself to do so when neither one of us cared for it or wanted to be involved or a part of it.

I might add, there are many people in my life and broader who frequently preface what they are about to say with "I was brought up a Catholic". to explain their troubled mindset and feelings about life.
They often appear resentful of the Catholic Church and what it has inculcated in them from an early age, when they did not have the maturity or life experiences to discriminate. It is not a religion of kindness, rather it is punitive and sees suffering as redemptive. Sins, forgiveness, .pardon confession, absorbing ones sins by ritual penalties..."Hail Mary"...
It is introspective and does not seek to develop a wider view of what we can do for others, simply soothes the inner guilt that it has, itself initiated. It is close minded and harsh.
I grew up with a clergyman for a father, c of E, middle of the road, it sought to propagate forgiveness for others, rather than just for oneself and offered humanity and kindness rather than ritual and penalty.
I must stop, sorry. But do look carefully into the Catholic school itself as well as the religion, it's values, it's beliefs and how progressive it sees itself.

@DynamoKev

Catholics believe a person needs to be baptised to go to heaven, That's me fucked then - although frankly I'd prefer not go if the restrictions are so tight and non-diverse, thanks.

You and me both. We’ll sell our souls to the highest bidder at the time lol!

YANBU.

I'm an atheist, no way could I stand up in public and make the declarations required of parents (caveat - I don't know what exactly is involved in the catholic rite, I'm assuming there's something akin to what happens in CofE and other Protestant baptisms).

And I wouldn't want my kid going to a faith school if I could possibly help it (atheists don't always get the choice, if it's an undersubscribed faith school )

I disagree with faith schools. The government provides schools for education and religion should be separate to education (RE should be used to help people understand all religions). I hate this thing that at 5 children are told they are different and go to different schools. I went to the local non denomination but sobdvfruebds went to the local Catholic school. It just baffles me that this goes on.

I'd let him go. You married someone that identifies as catholic, surely there have to be some concessions about how you raise your son. If its important to him, let him do it. If you dont believe then it doesn't really mean anything and I dont think you're making your son a catholic for life...if he doesnt believe then he can be whatever he wants

One of mine went to the Catholic school, it was a mid year move due to moving house.
He hated it and we movd him a couple of years later as soon as another place in the community school.
We are a Christian family, too, but it was too much and far to strict.

As for Christenings, well if you are a Christian I think you should, if you aren't just go for a naming ceremony.
I don't agree to allow the child to decide when older, as you are the parents and you raise them how you want, not how you imagine they might like when older.

I'm probably going to get hammered for this. I only had my kids christened so they could get into the best local school! I was raised catholic and think it's a load of clap trap and my ex wasn't religious at all, we didn't even marry in church!

Why would you christen a child if you've agreed not to push religious beliefs on the child?

Surely in that case you would let the child decide when they're old enough

The baptism isn’t the issue here. It’s just a short ceremony which only has no legal meaning and only has significance within the context of the church.

Catholic education is the real issue. I went to catholic schools and was taught by nuns. The religious brainwashing was constant and relentless. For thirteen years. In primary, almost the entirety of Year 3 was spent preparing us for our first confession and first communion. Year 7 was dominated by preparing us for confirmation. In secondary school, we were taught that masturbation, contraception & sex outside of marriage were sinful. This was in the 1980s, and while some things may have changed, the primary purpose of catholic schools will always be to create more practicing catholics.

If you are going to consider sending your child to catholic schools you need to understand exactly what that means in practice. If the school is over-subscribed, it is unlikely to want to admit pupils from secular / non-practicing families who want to cherry-pick the good bits while opting out of the catholic brainwashing.

I would not have the baby christened.
I agree with Mary McAleese in her views that a baby can't decide and it is unfair to decide for them.

www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/mary-mcaleese-baptised-children-infant-conscripts-1.3540624?mode=amp

As for confirmation, it is a joke, at my catholic primary all children were confirmed, it was not presented as a choice at all.
Objectively I had a good education but it was heavily bound in indoctrination.
My convent secondary had a prayer at the beginning of every lesson, so at least 5 times per day, we were subjected to endless talks on the evils of abortion and had to write essays on it in English and foreign language classes, it was not confined to RE. Sex education was non-existent.
I could have had a good education without all that nonsense.
I attended a christening in the last few years and the priest did a speech about how he hoped the parents would not be hypocritical by not now bringing their children to mass.
The catholic church is a misogynyistic, homophobic institution, I would not saddle a child with membership.
I have attended some family christenings but politely declined to be a godparent.
Christenings are often all about the party, the ridiculous balloons and cakes and a chance to get dressed up.

I’d only do it if there weren’t other restrictions to entry at the school - one near us in London required FOUR years of weekly attendance to be high up the list of consideration. Sounds like you wouldn’t be up for that... also you can have them baptised easily at any age until they’re quite a lot older, maybe up until confirmation age (16ish) the church loves a baptised catholic...

@AgeLikeWine how long is it since you left school ? I can assure you my son's Catholic school is absolutely not as you describe ,my own Catholic school in the 70,s and 80,s were admittedly strict ,but times move on and change .

Take the Baptism scenario out of the equation momentarily and look solely at the school issue as this seems to be the only factor causing you to pause for thought.

Look at the current admission criteria for the school (this can change over the years but may give you a rough idea of what is expected)

Some but not all faith schools require regular church attendance in their criteria, some only require a baptism certificate.

Are there Catholic feeder primary schools that take priority in the criteria? (if so that may affect your choice of primary school).

See if you can find the level of interaction and influence the church has with the school in question. Some faith schools may have varying degrees of involvement with the faith it is aligned to. They may encourage regular attendance to Mass or only occasionally. Some may encourage Catholic students to partake in their fist Holy Communion if they have not already had it, some may not.

The local Diocese may be quite considerably involved with the school and sit on the board of governors. My friend who is a deputy headteacher at a local faith secondary school recently told me about an incident where an employee from the local Brook Advisory Centre attended the school as part of a sexual health lesson. A parent phoned the Diocese' office and complained. The Diocese called the school and told them they had 10 minutes to get the person off school premises. However my step daughter attended another faith school and they had no such issue at all.

Obviously performance wise a school can significantly change over the years, it can improve as well as degenerate. Look at other secondary schools in the area and compare with the faith school is there currently a notable difference?

If after consideration you still want your son to possibly attend the faith school in question then there is no doubt that Baptising your child will make this considerably easier.

Not "absobing", I meant " absolving"

Our school absolutely will not take a child that not been christened.

Insane that this is allowed in the 21st Century.

How is it insane? Is it insane for a, let's say, gymnastics club to only allow in gymnasts and to turn down footballer? If a school is a Catholic school, it is absolutely reasonable for it to only admit Catholic children.

It seems many posters have not actually stepped foot in a Catholic school since the 80,s and basing their views on very outdated views .

Oh and I forgot to mention, I went to catholic school myself. My education and that of my eldest two children ( church schools) was far superior in comparison to that of my youngest two dc who went to local primary. Yes it was stricter and lots of religious indoctrination but I do believe if that is not followed up at home it doesn't have to much effect anyway.

@justlonelystars If you profoundly disagree with Catholic teachings, you should probably avoid sending your children to Catholic schools. If this school nearby is a private school, then presumably you have the resources to pick and choose from other great schools nearby.

I cannot think anything worse than the idiots who get their children babtised just to shovel them into a school where teachers will be all about supporting the lie of faith (its a money making scheme and nothing else) especially as these idiots still support so much of what is wrong with the world. Ofsted results aren't worth shit compared to bei g trapped in the abusive overbearing environment of a faith scho. The sooner these institutions stop getting state money to fuck up kids the better.

You do realise you don’t ‘christen your son’. You ask for your son to be christened. During that conversation, any RC priest worth his salt would soon notice the level of your understanding and commitment, and might ask you to reconsider.

My husband and I were both raised VERY Catholic, and neither of us has the slightest interest now, BUT we did have both of our children baptised for strong family reasons, and it was 100% the right decision.

Births, marriages and funerals are very important family events and the religious ceremony can give it structure that is important to older family members in particular. It meant a lot to our respective families, particularly as we didn't get married in a church, and it's no harm at all.

It doesn't sound like it sits right with you, OP, and equally there's no harm in that! Stick to your beliefs.

How is it insane? Is it insane for a, let's say, gymnastics club to only allow in gymnasts and to turn down footballer? If a school is a Catholic school, it is absolutely reasonable for it to only admit Catholic children.

It's discriminating against children because of what their parents believe (or pretend to believe).