I'm i being screwed over - family finances?

[ArnoldBee]

So hubby owes me £50k for various reasons over the past 10 years.

Since covid we've arranged our finances differently. My £2k income pays all the bills. Hubby's income £1.5k pays for other stuff ie holidays, takeaways, new fencing and maybe a new kitchen if I'm lucky.

Am I still £50k down if this is how things continue? Previously we would pay half each towards these things.

@LeroyJenkinssss

If he gave you £850 a month he’d have paid you back in just less than 5 years. I’d rather that option than him ‘treating’ the family every now and then tbh.

If your bills come to £2.5k and your total income is £4K, id have a joint account for bills where salaries go into and then transfer £325 into his account and £1,175 into yours. Then after 5 years (presuming everything else stays the same) it would go to £750 each.

This is what I would do too. Only thing to add is that if he’s acknowledged the list of £50k spent on “shiny things” would he be willing to seek help for his shopping addiction?

I think it is a big mistake that all his salary is designated as “fun money” because you know for a fact he’ll think buying you a lawn mower then allows him to buy himself a new shiny thing.

OP if you were ever to divorce, you would almost certainly not succeed in saying he “owed” you 50k. Yes he incurred debts, but in the marriage and you agreed to pay off.

The issue here is not the 50k. You either except you are a team. He’s acknowledge why he has incurred debt and is committed to not doing it again. In terms of your arrangement it seems fair. Most people have a joint account, but your arrangement seems fair.

Or, you accept he’s not going to change and you walk away.

I get the sense you are really angry about this (as you should be. You have been frugal and he’s been a spencer), but you feel you can’t say anything because of his MH issues.

I was in a similar position. Ex ran up masses of debt, lied and the debt. He would cry, apologise, go to therapy. It started impacting my MH (I was checking everything as I couldn’t trust him not to do something stupid - secret credit card).

For my own mental health I had to walk away.

I agree that in marriage you shouldn't owe the other person. As in, if the other person gets take away the other one doesnt owe £10 to the other person. Unless this is of course agreed between the couple.

But I don't agree that "your debt it my debt" mentality where the husband raks up £30k debt and wife pays it and then the husband can happily remain debt free without making any effort to pay back/increase joint savings and just spending more.

Weird set up IMO. How can you owe money to your spouse? Surely what’s his is yours and yours is his. One big pot.

I am pissed off as there's loads of shiny things I could have spent that money on but didn't.

From what you're saying, before he lost most of his income, your DH did buy himself those "shiny things" and frittered money when he could have repaid you, or saved.

So I don't think you're being unreasonable.

DH is bipolar so like you we have semi separate finances - that's not financial abuse or because we secretly hate marriage, it's good sense and it's working well for us financially and also in eliminating stress since we both know the bills are always covered.

However, the way we do it is every pay day he pays his (proportionate) share of the bills into my account so that everything he has left is his to fritter away as he sees fit. I think a situation where he was responsible for keeping money to one side for big things like a kitchen would be incredibly difficult for him to manage and really feels like it would be setting him up to fail.

In your situation I might discuss adding a (sensible, sustainable) amount to his monthly contribution to work towards paying back the debts you covered for him even if that meant they never got paid back in full. And don't lend him any more without a clear plan for how he's going to repay it! He's never going to save 50k on his own to pay you back but it's worth doing the work together to get to a point where neither of you feels resentful about money. Full disclosure: for us that involved a number of, ahem, robust discussions but we're there now and it was worth it.

A relationship between a spender and a saver rarely works. I say this through bitter experience.

Personally , I'd write off the 50k and split up. I know nothing of how this would work legally , but these situations always make the more sensible person unhappy and resentful. I think you could be happier without your partner.

You keep saying what you have done but what is he doing about his spending. You paid off 3!credit cards. Has he got rid of his credit cards completely? How do you know he won't take out another one?
Plus, he could not talk about finances because it made him anxious? How convenient!
I think you need to stop pandering to him. His problems are hard but you have yourself and your own children to think of.

You paid off his debt, the money’s gone you’re not going to get it back.
I think you just need to accept that.

I’m not sure why you ask if you’re still 50k down on the new arrangement? Of course you are. But if we had all said no, would you have said ok fine debt paid?

Hopeforthebest - I think you've got the wrong thread there!

I've always looked after his daughter as it wasn't safe for her to be left alone with him. He only set the house on fire once!

What are you getting out of this relationship?

he's profligate, you're frugal not a good financial mix. If you want financial security its important to work as a team, sometimes that means putting the brakes on your partner and preventing individual extravagance that you as a couple can't afford.

Going ahead with a plan of you paying the bills him paying for treats & fun stuff won't change his habits it's just a green light for more pissing money away. You'll never see that new kitchen until he's stabilised and well into the black. no holidays or shiny things for him till he's got a grip of himself. Long term he needs to change his habit with money, he needs your help to do that even though it will sting.

Short term, I'd want some of the shiny things sold and/or his monthly income handed over to you, split the bills and you give him an allowance for living expenses, whats left goes in a slush account that he can see but YOU control. You've bailed him out of debt, you can dictate your price for doing that. Its no bad thing to force him to face up to responsibility to you both as a couple in future, or it'll never end.

Eddie this is a question I find myself asking...

If nothing else companionship. When he's well he's on fire - great fun to be with. We can talk about a range of subjects and have many interests in common. He's a great wife and mother to his children.
Unfortunately he's mostly ill and I have to be the boring adult and pick up the slack with the kids.

The 'what's mine is yours and what's yours is mine' approach is all very well if you have a similar attitude to finances, trust one another and communicate honestly about these things. It helps if you've brought similar savings, earnings, responsibilities into the marriage. Step kids and maintenance issues can become a bone of contention.

Your arrangement seems very unbalanced and unfair and is obviously bothering you. If everything else in your marriage is fine then you just need to get serious about addressing his spending habit and rethink who pays for what.

Money issues aside for a second - what is in this arrangement for you? Have you almost taken on the role of carer for your partner? I can understand the resentment about the money that he spent.

Ha ha this man with his mysterious illness and profligate spending has got you exactly where he wants you.

OP,

You sound so tolerant.

Your choice.

I would wonder how YOUR children will look back on your choices and their childhood.

It sonds as if you made a very poor choice taking on a man with such huge needs when your first loyalty should have been to your children.

How has your being the only financially responsible adult trying to jughle it all while being married to this spendthrift, impacted YOUR children?

Clearly if you have been so frugal while Mr Shiny gadgets spends away, your children must have missed out.

Not fair.
Your children should be your priority, not working so he can spend.

I don't mean to be unkind but I really think you should have a good hard think about your choices.

Bless him his illness means he's often in A and E, sets fire to the house, nearly drowns, nearly gets run over by cars and trams, has been robbed and is in more pain than I could ever deal with.
So yes I am often more of a carer than his wife which complicates things further.
Yes I am angry as things have come to ahead for me over the past year like it has for others.

I think you need to reframe the issue. This is not a case of him "owing" you £50k and if it was you might as well write it off because he's never going to be able to clear that debt.

The issue is that he has, over a period of time, been spending money that you jointly as married couple cannot afford. You as the more responsible half of the partnership have had to take the strain and pay the price of his overspending.

It's not a completely unusual problem. What you need to focus on is whether he can change his behaviours sustainably for the long term. Everyone can screw up from time to time and relationships can survive screw-ups if the couple work as a team, sort the problem and make sure it doesn't reoccur. If you are confident you can do that together then there is hope for you. If you are not confident he can change, then you need to seriously consider if you are prepared to live like this for the rest of your life in the name of love. Be clear in your own mind where your boundaries and red lines are and stick to them, otherwise you will just get sucked into financial crisis after financial crisis over and over again.

I have to say the children have never missed out as they have always had what they need and often things they want.
After talking to DSD she didn't even realise her dad had depression and had tried to kill himself twice. This was a conversation prompted by her own moods and feelings not a general advert!

It’s really fantastic that he’s managing and getting more healthy now. It has to be a relief to you that he can now talk about finances and that you both have figured out how to stop the incoming shiny things.

Talk to him about getting maintenance. Here’s a perspective that might help him: that money is for his child and it’s a disservice to her to let her mother shirk her responsibilities. I’m an adult and still hurt when I think about how little my father put toward my care. Not because I went hungry but because it shows he didn’t care to meet his obligations to us. She should be made to help feed and clothe her child.

We put the amount we need for household into one account. We each have savings and we also contribute to joint savings. Could you do something like that? Either way a part of what is coming in from him should be automatically put toward the $50k. Maybe it will never be paid off but both of you will feel better! It doesn’t help his mental health or sense of himself to ignore this debt.

How long have you been together?

Do you own a house together? If you do is there any way that £50,000 could be reflected in what you own?

What would happen to his children if you split up?

Gah—- I missed your last two posts before I posted.

So are things better now or not?

Not sure how you can resolve this issue. You have conflicting attitudes to money. You live within your means and avoid debt. Your husband spends more than he earns and is tolerant of debt and borrowing.

It seems you have been trying to get his finances under control by lending him money and paying off his debt. It doesn't work as you have discovered. All the time he is potentially able to borrow on credit cards he will continue to rack up debt when he can't afford his excess purchases.

As a married couple, unfortunately, his debts are your debts. So what to do?

Pay 50/50 on bills plus a small payment from his income to you each month?

Agreement from him that he lives on his remaining income and has a conversation with you about any purchases that he can't 'afford, which may cause you more responsibility and resentment.

Insist that he claims child maintenance from his ex-wife or calculate an additional amount to you from his income.

Realistically this is an almost impossible issue to overcome without his continued commitment to control his spending. Perhaps you need to reconsider the relationship. I was married to a spender, fortunately a high earner. It got to the point where I didn't bother with savings, he would have got to them in the divorce.