To use CIO with naps too?

[Soitis83]

DS is 9 months old, he sleeps so well at night. We put him in his cot, he cried for maybe 20/30 minutes on and off, then he sleeps all night. But naps, not so much. He can go over an hour of crying. He sleeps well if I leave my hand in the cot but doesn't stay asleep for longer than half and hour. Do I just leave him to cry ? I know some people arr dead against it, I am to an extent but I'm also open to being proved wrong. I don't need the science, believe me I've googled it all. I just need other mums who have done the same thing and whether it worked or didn't work for them???

Thank you @Onadifferentuniverse !

Honestly OP, some posters are so keen to have a go and be as superior and judgmental as possible that they have no interest in supporting or offering advice to a struggling mother. What you describe (regularly soothing your baby as he learns to settle) is fine - he knows you are there when he cries, but he is also learning the valuable skill of falling asleep on his own. But your reasonable explanation will be ignored by the posters who are only here to stick the boot in.

In terms of naps, I find that if I can get my son to sleep in the sling I can then transfer him into the pram or the cot to sleep, and he will stay asleep for a decent stretch. Not sure if you’ve already tried that / it’s possible but may be worth a go!

@unmarkedbythat oh no I really do want advice! It's not the ones that are opposing its the ones that come here just to tell me how awful I am, thats not advice, that is just being unkind.

And the horror that one of them said they work for cahms.

@Vtech yeah I agree. Its odd why some people just like to tell you how awful you are and offer no support or advice at all. But ahh well, no everyone can be helpful I guess!
The reasoning hadn't tried anything but the cot was because I was told that he had to know cot meant bed or bedtime would be harder. So naps and bedtime in the cot. But I'm going to try the pram (which has already worked, albeit for half and hour but hey ho) and also someone mentioned rousing them around 25 minutes which I'll try tomorrow. I've got some great advice here and support also, I feel so much more relaxed now

*the reason I

I think CIO is abusive - emotionally. That's my point. It's not as bad as hitting but it's on the same spectrum. You say it's a method, I say it's neglectful, based on your own needs and not even slightly in line with even basic knowledge on child development. Hence, yes I judge, as you would with my egregious example.

Also
Oh, I bet you do. You'd be an odd one indeed if you refused to judge parents for methods you deemed abusive and neglectful."

These thread always make me roll my eyes- any opinions or advice critical of what the OP wants to do is deemed unhelpful or unkind, those telling the OP to carry on with her preferred course of action are praised. You don't want advice, you want to be told what you're doing is OK. But there are many of us who do not think CIO and related 'methods' are OK, and we are under no obligation to pat your head and encourage you to crack on with a parenting method we think is harmful.

The above post is absolutely correct. See it here all the time. Asking for opinions, then whining that anyone who disagrees is mean, can't we all be nice to each other, we're all trying blah blah blah. Maybe we need a forum section "I've already made my mind up but need reassurance" where any dissent is removed?

@Showers3 for goodness sake. Now I know I shouldn't even reply. Yes I agree it's a bloody good thing I'm not a child psychologist, it's a hard job and wouldn't be for me. However I'm not some hard non caring bitch to say that in the majority of cases I can't see how a few nights of controlled crying, with checks, could out weigh a lifetime of love! It's not bizarre to suggest that you only see a particular slice of the population in your job (if that's your job) and therefore might be skewing your thinking. I am not qualified but surely that's logical not bizarre. I have experience and learning I could bring in, I'm not talking with no basis. However I know I won't change your mind. Because your view is based on your experience and learning. I just couldn't not reply when you suggested I'd said something bizarre!

@MondieBee its a shame you feel like that it really is. But like I said each to their own. I used to feel the exact same way

Of course we can and do judge parenting techniques. Some can definitely be considered abusive. I view CIO as potentially neglectful and abusive. This is not to say a child will be permanently damaged by it of course. Just like a child will not be permanently damaged by the odd screaming match or even the odd slap. But it doesn't make any of those 'techniques' good or positive. They are not in my view. But parents can choose to use them. I will judge them. It doesn't make them 'bad' parents through and through. I just consider this a bad choice. But it is my view.

OP I would suggest you click “report” on your own post and ask MN to change the title to read “controlled crying” instead of “CIO”. CIO is like a red rag to a bull on MN

In answer to your question: I would recommend you use the CC method at his first nap of the day, as that and bedtime are the easiest times for babies to learn to self settle. But any naps later in the day I would suggest using buggy or sling.

Personally I think controlled crying is absolutely justified and in your baby’s best interests if they are otherwise waking up every 30 minutes all night. It is dangerous for you to be that tired. I was in this situation and ended up nearly falling down the stairs with DD in my arms due to being so tired. After that we sleep trained. HVs know this, they know exhausted parents are not good parents and that’s why they often suggest sleep training.

Also a 30 minute sleep cycle is a good indicator of overtiredness (40/45 minutes is a normal cycle) so he clearly needs to sleep better.

You seem very reluctant to adapt and determined not to listen.

I’ve raised 5, 2 whilst very young, and I’m telling you CIO is miserable and not successful. Tried with my first, I became obsessive and it actually damaged our bond. I was determined I needed it and couldn’t cope but thankfully someone got through to me. He was always my worst sleeper though it did improve with cuddles and us both learning to relax. I’ve also raised a disabled child with significant sleep barriers, before you argue about a difficult baby/ circumstance. It was not the answer still.

Take on board what people are telling you.

Biggest advice: sling, Pram, your bed- whatever you need for naps and to relax. Nap with him, whatever. They all settle at about the same age regardless, bar any real trauma around bed. Mine all learned to sleep through the night fine, and they were ‘spoilt’. If anything they were quickly good sleepers. Screw routines, be responsive as life allows and do whatever to manage it. That’s a route to happy responsive and relaxed parenting

Could you do the gradual retreat method?

So you stay in the room shhhhhing to sleep then every few nights move further and further away and by the end your shhhing from outside the room then hopefully you don’t need to any more!!

As you’ve now realised CC and CIO are two different approaches to sleep training.

CIO is abhorrent but CC can be very effective if done correctly.

When my first son was 9 months old I turned to a sleep Consultant for help as my son had so many bad sleeping habits and I was so, so exhausted. I just couldn’t carry on anymore.

She recommended CC and it was very successful for me. And yes, I did use it at nap times too. She did say though that if after 30 minutes he still wasn’t asleep then to just take him out his cot and take him out for a walk in the pram to see if he would fall asleep then in instead.

Some people on this thread are describing CIO as abuse and neglect. I'm curious - have you ever called social services on someone for doing CIO? Because if you knew about it and didn't, then you don't really think it's abuse, do you?

Don't worry about the haters, OP. No one does CIO for fun. They do it because they're on their knees and nothing else is working. I saw a counsellor after my first because I had PPD/PPA and she was fully supportive of me doing CIO when it came to that because I had no one to come round and help out, I was a full-time FTM SAHM, and if he hadn't learned to sleep when he did I would have either hurt him or just left one day and never came back, it was that bad. A happy mum is the best thing a baby can have, she told me, and as someone said above, a few nights of crying won't outweigh a lifetime of love. Some people are happy to feed their babies to sleep forever or to be woken up twenty times a night. I really really wasn't.

I loved cosleeping when they were tiny, I "loved" CIO (in that it worked where nothing else did) when they were bigger.

Hi OP,

I've got two kids, 10.5 months apart. So I definitely needed to sleep!

We did CIO with both of them at 7 months old.
Well, a mix of CC and CIO but the longest my son ever cried for was 18 mins. We had been in to see him twice before that but we'd then add time on. They were both sleeping through the night from 3 days into the method and now sleep 7-8am, they are happy, healthy and I don't regret it one bit.

It means that when they cry now we go straight in to see them because we know that they need something.

Do what works for you. Naps fell into place for us but maybe you can post your daily routine with him so we can see what times he's going down for naps etc?

Good luck op.

@PerspicaciousGreen I think just because they think its awful (I mean it is, hearing your baby cry is always awful, but it also works well) then they assume its borderline abuse/neglect. But its okay, I'm fine with now I've had clarity from like minded people who have had plenty of experience. They don't see the times you're sitting outside in tears, or like you said, wanting to just leave (I've been there too) go without food because you're depressed and too tired to be hungry etc. But its the best thing I did. Tonight was so easy. Hes been asleep since half 7 with no waking so far and he would've already been up at least 3 times by now. And he didn't take long at all to fall asleep at all! I'm so pleased. I also loved co sleeping but it stopped working, in fact I'm not sure it ever did! But I did what I had to then.

@Elmo311 oh wow 18 minutes! Was that naps too? That's good to hear your experience with it. It reassures me!

So, heres our routine
Awake 7am for feed
Breakfast 8:30am
Nap 9:30/10am
Milk whenever he wakes which is usually only half hour after that so 10/10:30
Lunch 11:30/12
Nap 2/2:30
Another short 30 minute nap, milk feed
Dinner 5ish
Bath 6:15
Wind down and in bed by 7

Sometimes hes been needing an extra nap and bedtime becomes longer, thsts been happening since sleep training. That was closer to before and where I would like to get to again. Tonight was better. He was in bed by 7 and asleep by half past

Mum of 5 hear and I have never purposely allowed any of my kids (when they were babies) to cry for more than a minute. Babies do not cry for no reason and your job, as a mum, is to comfort them as and when they need you to, no matter how tired you are.

@JRUIN I mean do what you think is best, but personally I couldn't do that. Sometimes my boy cries because I stop him from eating a stick on the floor, hes gonna have to just cry i won't be giving him the dirty stick!
Wow, 5 kids! You women are super human im sure of it. Its like when I see women have two under two, I want to applaud them!!

Leaving a baby to cry for an hour is really not OK. There are gentler ways to settle your baby, that will be less harmful to your baby's development.

Personally I found my baby slept very well in a sling. If you are dead set on using the cot then controlled crying is much better that CIO.

@Stompythedinosaur I can see why you wouldn't read all the replies as its rather long! But I have explained I'm using controlled crying but just got the terminology wrong, my bad. I'm in more than I'm out and since started have ended up with mt hand in the cot while he falls asleep on it.

@Soitis83 now you're just being obtuse. Of course you take the stick away from him, but then you give just give him something else to replace the stick and/or distract him surely? Also there is less than two years between each of my youngest 3 and yes it was bloody hard. Still no excuse for negligence though.

@JRUIN

Mum of 5 hear and I have never purposely allowed any of my kids (when they were babies) to cry for more than a minute. Babies do not cry for no reason and your job, as a mum, is to comfort them as and when they need you to, no matter how tired you are.

Yes I remember being so impressed when I met a mum of 5 with her 5th newborn. I was struggling so much with one and couldn’t understand how she coped.

Then she said hers all slept through from 6 weeks 🙄

@JRUIN that doesn't work for me, the boy knows what he wants!
I hope you're not suggesting I neglect my child?