AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question - Thread 2

[Thewithesarehere]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:
“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I simply don't accept males as women. And I'm not exactly in the minority in society on that. I won't put women and girls second, just because male feelings get hurt. I see the toxic misogyny in gender identity politics.

It's not about women and girls second and make feelings. It's about them being equal.

There may be toxic misogny in the politics but there is misandry in this type of statement.

Imagine the reverse. I won't put men second because women get hurt. Still OK?

It's not that you're not in the minority, but people do believe it differently. I've been educated in the last hour, but I still don't agree with the carte blanche they're not women end of. And this takes me back to my point and I'm sorry to say it again, but refusing to accept that a transwoman is a woman (identifies as a woman, lives as a woman) IS transphobic. The sentiment is.

It's not about women and girls second and make feelings. It's about them being equal.

No it isn't. You are incredibly naive.

Glitter family waiting in the wings?

Rachel McKinnon, adult human male (and women's world cycling champion as it happens) encouraging children to contact them, encouraging alienation from parents, telling children that their 'glitter family' is waiting for them.

Red flags a go go!

@Ereshkigalangcleg

In a mixed changing room, men do shower at the same time as children and we don't have a problem with this (if we do, we get changed privately).

But when it's a transwoman we have a problem. Why?

Why do you think we have less problem with men who don't claim to be the opposite sex? I don't. I don't want to shower with any males, thanks.

I don't use mixed changing rooms.

I honestly don't know. Because you believe that men who don't claim to be the opposite sex have motives, I presume, but that's not the majority. Surely, and I think ti was you, apologies if it wasn't, if a man wanted to gain access to women in a changing room etc, he would fully transition, make sure his appearance was fully female in order to get in there.

In a mixed changing room, men do shower at the same time as children and we don't have a problem with this (if we do, we get changed privately).

Eh? I've never come across a mixed changing room where the showers were mixed.

Family rooms, yes - but that's different from a totally unisex changing room where an unrelated single man can come in and sit there perving at teenage girls as everyone gets changed.

Where are these places?

As people have said, you give your opinions to TRAs on Twitter. See if they think that any acknowledgment of women's feelings and needs at all is reasonable.

It's not about women and girls second and make feelings. It's about them being equal.
I would quite like to see the evidence of this equality.
From head to toe.
Please share.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

It's not about women and girls second and make feelings. It's about them being equal.

No it isn't. You are incredibly naive.

I'm not naive.

I believe that the issue is about making them equal. You don't agree, and that's fine, but I'm not naive because I don't agree with you, and I'm not a misogynist either.

And this takes me back to my point and I'm sorry to say it again, but refusing to accept that a transwoman is a woman (identifies as a woman, lives as a woman) IS transphobic.

What is the definition of woman?

And actually rates of abuse are significantly higher in unisex facilities

Half of the resources , nearly all of the assaults

@Thewithesarehere

It's not about women and girls second and make feelings. It's about them being equal. I would quite like to see the evidence of this equality. From head to toe. Please share.

Sorry, I don't know what you want evidence of?

Also this person is representative in that he's clearly male.

80% not transitioning, whatever their reason, means they look clearly male.

How does one tell them apart from men?

How do you live as a woman ?

The changing room issues really gets me because they're not allowed in with women, hammering home that they will never be a woman.

Tough shit.

They can't go in with men.

Yes they can.

Because you believe that men who don't claim to be the opposite sex have motives, I presume, but that's not the majority.

No. You're putting words in my mouth. I simply expect the privacy and dignity of a female only space. I believe this is my right, when I am undressed or otherwise vulnerable. This is about them being male. It's nothing to do with their personal gender identity.

Treating men and women as equals doesn't mean treating them exactly the same. It means addressing the differences to enable equal participation in life.

Accepting males as women means that we don't even have equal right to define ourselves as separate from men. And if we can't be defined then none of the problems can be addressed.

Women will have no choice but to withdraw from life because the very nature if our biological differences and the issues that can cause will be forever hidden from view.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

As people have said, you give your opinions to TRAs on Twitter. See if they think that any acknowledgment of women's feelings and needs at all is reasonable.

But I' m not a TRA, and neither are all trans people (someone upthread pointed that out earlier on).

So why is my opinion not valid based on a bunch of maniacs on Twitter?

I'm a woman , and so is Katie Hopkins, but I don't believe that fat people shouldn't be allowed a job.

Eh? I've never come across a mixed changing room where the showers were mixed. Family rooms, yes - but that's different from a totally unisex changing room where an unrelated single man can come in and sit there perving at teenage girls as everyone gets changed. Where are these places?

I want to find out about this too. Family rooms are plenty. But where are these changing rooms where any man or woman or child can come in and change in front of everyone?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Because you believe that men who don't claim to be the opposite sex have motives, I presume, but that's not the majority.

No. You're putting words in my mouth. I simply expect the privacy and dignity of a female only space. I believe this is my right, when I am undressed or otherwise vulnerable. This is about them being male. It's nothing to do with their personal gender identity.

Well, you asked me why I thought that, then when I answered said not to put words in your mouth, which is an odd approach.

You absolutely do have that right. But - surely it's not about them being male. It's about whether they are a 'threat' to you, if you will.

The changing room issues really gets me because they're not allowed in with women, hammering home that they will never be a woman.

Reality can be tough for lots of people. It's tough for me to see how little people care about the feelings of women and girls.

In a mixed changing room, men do shower at the same time as children and we don't have a problem with this (if we do, we get changed privately).

They shower clothed and then there are individual cubicles with no communal changing area at all.

If an adult man got his cock out in communal 'changing village' showers at the local leisure centre, he would be arrested!

Totally different to single sex facilities.

And we do 'label all men the same' - that's the reason men aren't allowed in female spaces, even the nice men!

@Thewithesarehere

Eh? I've never come across a mixed changing room where the showers were mixed. Family rooms, yes - but that's different from a totally unisex changing room where an unrelated single man can come in and sit there perving at teenage girls as everyone gets changed. Where are these places?

I want to find out about this too. Family rooms are plenty. But where are these changing rooms where any man or woman or child can come in and change in front of everyone?

I don't know where you guys go, but open showers beside the swimming pool where anyone can go if they like are pretty commonplace.

I took a school trip not too long ago (pre covid, obviously) and there were men, women, and children wandering in and out of the showers while my kids were getting showered. I'm referring to the showers. Incidentally, I don't think I've ever seen a changing room where the showers were in there, and not pool side.

Bigger swimming pools, waterparks etc, tend to have one massive changing room. IME, but then I'm not from England.

Well actually sometimes they can't go in with men
That's a man problem , they get scared . As one said to me when this came up at Work " but he's wearing a dress "

And they do need somewhere to go

Work created fully self contained sex neutral rooms

The translady was happy as was everyone else and stayed with the employer until retirement

But - surely it's not about them being male. It's about whether they are a 'threat' to you, if you will.

No. It's not just about threat, don't you see that? I don't want males around when I am undressed. My brother is lovely, I don't want him around when I am undressed. I have lovely male colleagues and friends, I don't want them around while I am undressed. My DP is lovely, I don't expect other women to be ok changing in front of him.

@Sheleg

The changing room issues really gets me because they're not allowed in with women, hammering home that they will never be a woman.

Tough shit.

They can't go in with men.

Yes they can.

"tough shit".

Again - men (or womans) feelings can just get fucked because they're trans so who cares.