Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question - Thread 2

999 replies

Thewithesarehere · 27/01/2021 21:30

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:
“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU. Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
26
JoodyBlue · 29/01/2021 14:45

@RootyT00t

What an utterly bizarre response, *@winesalot*.

As I read through the thread I see it is a happy place for bigots to spout unrelated, patronising essays at anyone who dares to shift from the narrative, all the while being so pleased with themselves .
And then people wonder why they're not wanted on social media!

I fear far less for our young women and men being in changing rooms than I do them growing up in a world where grown up wide eyed but why are we not allowed our opinions give the type of opinions seen on these threads.

haha - in other words "women stfu" - this is a site primarly targeted at mums. There is a lot of evidence on this thread. What is "the narrative" by the way? And what's with all the "wide eyes?"
Winesalot · 29/01/2021 14:46

@RootyT00t

What an utterly bizarre response, *@winesalot*.

As I read through the thread I see it is a happy place for bigots to spout unrelated, patronising essays at anyone who dares to shift from the narrative, all the while being so pleased with themselves .
And then people wonder why they're not wanted on social media!

I fear far less for our young women and men being in changing rooms than I do them growing up in a world where grown up wide eyed but why are we not allowed our opinions give the type of opinions seen on these threads.

Not really Rooty

Merely asking you to clarify your rather comment which could be taken a number of ways. As I indicated.

Want to take a shot at answering any of the questions I raised?

They are all related directly or indirectly to this question and safeguarding and women's rights.

RootyT00t · 29/01/2021 14:46

@Whatsnewpussyhat

So instead of these males being happy to express their appearance and celebrate MALE diversity, we have to play along with the notion that their clothes and feelings somehow make them women instead of non conforming men?
Because instead of males being told to just be men and label themselves as they are told, we have to not be not only transphobic but also trans deniers. Fixed it for you.
RootyT00t · 29/01/2021 14:47

@Winesalot

Nope.

OnlyTheLangoftheTitBerg · 29/01/2021 14:48

Every racist or homophobe ever would always have lots of evidence why they're not. Doesn't change the facts.

But you don’t have facts. You have name-calling, and statements of belief that don’t stand up to any critical scrutiny whatsoever. At every turn there is evidence - actual studies, statistics, research - demonstrating that this ideology’s mantras are a crock of shit.

DeaconBoo · 29/01/2021 14:48

Every racist or homophobe ever would always have lots of evidence why they're not. Doesn't change the facts.

I love this statement. "Evidence doesn't change the facts" Grin

It's either evidence, and it changes the facts, or it isn't evidence.

AryaStarkWolf · 29/01/2021 14:49

Don't think anyone in this thread has denied the existence of transpeople

DeaconBoo · 29/01/2021 14:49

"Because instead of males being told to just be men and label themselves as they are told, we have to not be not only transphobic but also trans deniers."

Got it. Crystal clear.

midgedude · 29/01/2021 14:51

Trans what exactly

Winesalot · 29/01/2021 14:52

[quote RootyT00t]@Winesalot

Nope.[/quote]
Fair enough.

So, the answer is 'yes' to this question?:

"do you think that an adult male with a penis should have the right to undress beside a teenage girl, or any woman, in a women's communal changing room?'

Just being clear as I think it was hidden in amongst your other words meant to shame me and inferring that my beliefs that there is a conflict in safeguarding and women's rights is just the same as what was it, racism and homophobia....?

Whatsnewpussyhat · 29/01/2021 14:53

Because instead of males being told to just be men and label themselves as they are told, we have to not be not only transphobic but also trans deniers. Fixed it for you

Telling females that being a woman is nothing more than a 'feeling' that men can somehow experience is pure misogyny.

DickKerrLadies · 29/01/2021 14:54

I'm confused - is Rooty deliberately trying to prove our point for us?

It's a great effort either way. The post replying "nope" is just genius. A really good example of what we're up against.

Calling us bigots and then flatly refusing to engage with our viewpoint in a very bigoted way! You couldn't make it up.

Shockedupsetscared · 29/01/2021 14:55

O the irony in a proponent of an ideology which is intent on turning young lesbians into 'straight men' calling anyone else homophobic...

AryaStarkWolf · 29/01/2021 14:55

Is "wide eyed" the new "hysterical"? Grin

RootyT00t · 29/01/2021 14:57

@DickKerrLadies

I'm confused - is Rooty deliberately trying to prove our point for us?

It's a great effort either way. The post replying "nope" is just genius. A really good example of what we're up against.

Calling us bigots and then flatly refusing to engage with our viewpoint in a very bigoted way! You couldn't make it up.

What's the point ?

Why would I engage with a transphobic who isn't going to change their mind? What a waste of time.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/01/2021 14:57

under the faux naive wide eyed confusion

Speak for yourself. No confusion here, "faux", "wide-eyed" or any other way.

RootyT00t · 29/01/2021 14:58

@AryaStarkWolf

Is "wide eyed" the new "hysterical"? Grin
It is wide eyed though.

But why can't we have our opinion on social media? 😲

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/01/2021 14:58

Calling us bigots and then flatly refusing to engage with our viewpoint in a very bigoted way! You couldn't make it up.

It's textbook.

RootyT00t · 29/01/2021 14:58

@Shockedupsetscared

O the irony in a proponent of an ideology which is intent on turning young lesbians into 'straight men' calling anyone else homophobic...
I'm not a proponent of anything.

I'm a human. HTH.

RootyT00t · 29/01/2021 14:59

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Calling us bigots and then flatly refusing to engage with our viewpoint in a very bigoted way! You couldn't make it up.

It's textbook.

No, you mean people have called you out for being transphobic then not sat and read your essays and wanted to engage with you? No!! I'm shocked.

What an education they have all missed out on.

littlbrowndog · 29/01/2021 14:59

Calling someone a transphobic used to be a way to stop any debate

Now it doesn’t

Women will keep talking whatever labels you put on them

midgedude · 29/01/2021 15:01

Man isn't a "label"

It's a statement of fact

It had nothing to do with who that person fundamentally is

It simply describes his sexual genetic make up

Since a persons sex is so easy to spot , and a low level fundamental biological survival of species level, it's always there

You can't trans your body into the other sex.

ergo gender is the only thing you are "transing" but gender isn't innate, it isn't experienced by everyone , it means different things to different people

What you are doing is trying to get people to treat you as if you were the opposite sex

Ther are only 2 reasons for treating people different according to sex

Regressive stereotypes . Crap
Physical need . Sport and health fall into this category

Physical need today unfortunately also includes the need to give women space from men so that women can freely participate in society

Some men want to take that away from women

RootyT00t · 29/01/2021 15:02

@Winesalot

Ahh very clever i see what you did there

I can see how my use of the word 'Nope' and refusal to engage with your many random statements means I have answered yes to yet another question that I didn't actually answer.

I did compare your and other posters stances to racism and homophobia though yes. I don't think that was hidden.

RootyT00t · 29/01/2021 15:03

@littlbrowndog

Calling someone a transphobic used to be a way to stop any debate

Now it doesn’t

Women will keep talking whatever labels you put on them

Excellent.

And we will keep thinking you are transphobic.

And the world will continue.

gardenbird48 · 29/01/2021 15:03

I wouldn't say i'm 'fighting hard'- I'm just confused why people are so angry about it- as far as I can see there is no perfect solution for everyone but letting transwomen use womens bathrooms is definitely best for them with not much risk to women that I can see

Lil - a much more workable solution has been suggested many times - third spaces where families and any people that don’t wish to use the single sex facilities can go. That would also answer the non binary dilemma. There are women (maybe like yourself?) who have said they are happy to share spaces with transwomen (whether or not they have had any surgery or even a change of appearance - not all transwomen wear dresses or even use stereotypically female presentation to indicate their identity) and obviously families can use them so it should be quite a flexible space.

Unfortunately this very good suggestion has been roundly rejected on the rather spurious grounds that it is potentially ‘outing’. I really can’t see how that is if there is a mix of people using this space. There is a reason for this rejection but I may get deleted if I try and describe it on here.

Many women, myself and my daughters included do not want or cannot share spaces where we might be undressed with male born people. There are women with religious beliefs that prevent them from doing this and are now being excluded from female only spaces because they allow male bodied people to use them now.

If my teenage daughter walks into a public toilets (one exit only remember) and sees a man in there, what do I advise her to do?
a) run, he’s a predatory man
b) don’t worry, that’s probably a non predatory transwoman just going about their business
c) be worried, that could be a predatory transwoman of the type that gets placed in women’s prisons and rapes women but you have no way of telling but decide quickly because it could be too late.

So, my daughters safety is put at risk because what predatory male would give up the chance to get a woman on her own in the toilets and he knows that no one will challenge him going in there?

Most males are not rapists but all rapists are male (you need a penis) so why would we make it easier for men to access female only enclosed spaces?

A 10 year old girl in Scotland was sexually assaulted at knifepoint by a trans-identifying person being escorted by a social worker who allowed them to use the ladies toilets unsupervised. The Scottish government is currently putting laws in place to make that far easier to happen again. Normal people would be taking steps to prevent it happening [hmn]