AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question - Thread 2

[Thewithesarehere]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:
“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

A friend of mine was banned from a couple of facebook pages for asking why this proud transwoman should be allowed to use the same showers as a 7 year old girl after swimming.

It's illogical, because if you believe that people who look like this are genuinely women, why wouldn't they be allowed to use the same changing rooms as teenage girls? You either believe they're women or you don't, they're either women just like all the rest of us or they're not.

The fact that you get banned for pointing out that this is the logic of their position, shows that they don't really believe in their own logic. They're not prepared to argue their case, they just ban you. Which says it all for me.

This person is on Twitter so it's not as though she was invading this person's privacy or anything, what this person is saying is already in the public domain.

So no, YANBU. Women should be allowed to question this new religion and espouse heretical positions.

Stay safe.

You say that like it's within the pp's power to ensure that. Enabling males to enter female spaces unchallenged makes it even harder for any of us to control our exposure to risk and 'stay safe.'

Yes screaming

For us its all "acceptance without exception" but then moderators allowed to remove and dismiss any one they feel is problematic fir the cause.

Which is it, Everyone's a woman who says they are a woman or a woman is only a woman until she commits a crime or posts a problematic photo?

But I'm afraid I do also believe that in this particular circumstance two wrongs do not make a right.

In what sense is it "wrong" for female people to expect the privacy and dignity of a space free from males?

"Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:
“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU. "

LilMidge01

This thread and the OP question is about toilets.

This thread isn't about toilets. Why are you pretending it is, to win a different easier argument? I've bolded the actual question, try answering that.

But I do feel that allowing transwomen into women's toilets is the best of many imperfect solutions.

Why is it the best solution? Because its the solution where males get what they want?

I'm also interested in whether you think cross dressers should be allowed in women's toilets?

Thanks for your contributions, I think you are asking good questions and making me think, which is exactly what is needed. Your question is, does it matter whether the person next to you in the changing room has a penis or not. I have never suffered from severe sexual harassment or abuse, but I would never choose to get undressed in a space where there are male bodied people. I choose not to do this, because I know that men, or people with penises can be a source of harm to me, so I don't want to make myself vulnerable around them.
By admitting anyone who identifies as a woman into my changing room, I have no choice but to potentially have to undress in front of people who make me feel vulnerable.

If I was someone who had suffered sexual violence at the hands of a man, I am not sure I would be able to make any rational differentiation between benign penis owners and those that may be a threat, and single sex spaces are there to prevent vulnerable people having to make these judgements. They really shouldn't have to. And the rights of these women should not be sacrificed to provide a safe harbour for transwomen.

And also women of religion who now may not be able to use these facilities

That was to @LilMidge01. I may not agree with you but it is v refreshing to have someone engage on the issues beyond the usual transwomen are women deal with it bullshit

If I was someone who had suffered sexual violence at the hands of a man, I am not sure I would be able to make any rational differentiation between benign penis owners and those that may be a threat

There is no rational differentiation to be made, until you are post attack.

Predators, dominating men, general creeps, do not go around with a sign.

In fact, many women fall in love with and marry a man like this, without realising.

The naivety and misplaced confidence of certain people who believe they can tell, is very dangerous.

I'm not suggesting that is you, Belleende, by the way.

It's just the complete lack of consideration for the feelings of women and girls, while falling over themselves to coddle the feelings of males, which gets me every time.

I think we are making the same point @Datun. @LilMidge01 is asking if the penis owner is not doing anything untoward, should their presence in the changing room matter. I think it is entirely unfair to expect any woman, but especially women who have suffered sexual abuse, to put that aside and accept and believe on face value that allowing people with penises into their space is no threat to them, when they are likely to believe that all men and penises are potential sources of harm. They should not be put in a position of having to accept this.

@Datun yes. And yet Rape Crisis Centres throughout the UK are taking on Transwomen as counsellors. This to me is astonishing. Astonishing!! Yes transwomen can suffer sexual violence and need support and safety. But rape is specifically a crime against women because women can get pregnant from this form of assault. It is one of the reasons it is so horrific - the potential long term affect on not only the woman victim, but on a next generation. The women who argued for Rape Crisis funding foresaw these centres as lifelines for women.

And this is where we are now with labour 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️😥😥😥

labour.org.uk/about/how-we-work/nec-statement-women-shortlists-womens-officers-minimum-quotas-women/

It's just the complete lack of consideration for the feelings of women and girls, while falling over themselves to coddle the feelings of males, which gets me every time

No one can ever explain either how this benefits women. Theres not a single benefit to opening up a womens changing room to any male who feels they want it.

@Whatwouldscullydo

It's just the complete lack of consideration for the feelings of women and girls, while falling over themselves to coddle the feelings of males, which gets me every time

No one can ever explain either how this benefits women. Theres not a single benefit to opening up a womens changing room to any male who feels they want it.

Except for considering oneself as being the kindest, most tolerant kind of woman.

Rather than being the nasty alternatives who want to retain safeguarding measures.

Except for considering oneself as being the kindest, most tolerant kind of woman

Will all be for nothing though. Once people get what they want from you, they will want nothing more to do with you. Theres no added protection, no special Privilege for being the most self sacrificing woman alive willing to put themselves in harms way.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Except for considering oneself as being the kindest, most tolerant kind of woman

Will all be for nothing though. Once people get what they want from you, they will want nothing more to do with you. Theres no added protection, no special Privilege for being the most self sacrificing woman alive willing to put themselves in harms way.

I know that's what makes it so painful to watch.

Particularly painful when it's female politicians who are adopting this approach. They should be working for us.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

It's just the complete lack of consideration for the feelings of women and girls, while falling over themselves to coddle the feelings of males, which gets me every time.

Yes. I find it really sickening too. So many women keen to show how they'll happily subjugate their own rights and welfare to men's feelings. Tools of the patriarchy.

@lifeturnsonadime

Deacon so what you are saying is that a persons feeling of being a different sex (which is open to abuse because is no more than a feeling) is deemed more important than an elderly persons desire to receive intimate care from a person of the same sex?

Wow.

Yes. By the way this thread is worth a read. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3763519-A-woman-who-asked-for-her-NHS-breast-screening-to-be-carried-out-by-a-female-born-clinician-was-pilloried-as-a-transphobe-by-a-hospital-trust

This person was made an MBE for her LGBT work.

I assume the original article share token has run out but might be googlabe.

Googling gives a Glinner interview with her
glinner.co.uk/interview-with-clare-dimyon-mbe/

Particularly painful when it's female politicians who are adopting this approach. They should be working for us

Yes instead they are happy to follow follow their beliefs off a cliff and will make themselves look like complete idiots on tv or the radio etc

I mean we have jo swinson struggling on air to say what a women is, Lisa nansy announcing on camera a rapist should
be able to choose their prison and dawn butler claiming babies are born without a sex on this morning show.

Has anyone thanked them for it? No infavt lib dems and Labour had dismal numbers if cotes amd Jo lost her seat...

Looks like @SweetPetrichor has flounced.

Is it my imagination or are most of the “kind” women who want to accommodate males thinking mainly of themselves?

As in “I wouldn’t mind” or “I think that wouldn’t matter”?

Whereas all of us who are worried are thinking about our young daughters or vulnerable women?

As in “I don’t want my 15 year old daughter and her friend being alone in a changing room with a trans woman with male genitalia who may be attracted to women” or “I don’t think it is right that vulnerable women in prisons are forced to live with trans women who have male genitalia and are in prison for sexual assault” or “I don’t want my elderly mother being forced to receive intimate care from a male born”?

Is this just me or is this a trend?