Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this response to a hospital complaint isn’t good enough ?

229 replies

famedThesaurusofTheforgotten · 27/01/2021 11:01

Dd had been unwell for some months in 2019. Repeated trips to gp. Nothing found.
Stomach aches, cold all the time, not growing well feeling sick etc etc all those sorts of symptoms and worsening. Kept being told ‘viral’

One week she was so unwell we took her to a and e as I suspected anaemia maybe as she was sleeping a lot and had no energy?
I was very worried we were seen and a dr said she probably needs some bloods done which I agreed with and we went to wait for the emla cream etc.

Then we were called through by a diff dr and agressively questioned then said she actually didn’t actually think bloods were needed i said I wanted her to have them done she kept shouting at me in front of dd ‘why do you want me to hurt her by putting needles in her ?’ And ‘I won’t stick needles in a child for no reason ‘
She was absolutely horrible told us dd was ‘fine ‘ That she looked fine I tried to explain she looked so much healthier a year before and had now become paler and thinner but she said no she looked fine to her

She was aggressive and was telling me I wanted to have my child hurt for no reason with a needle ??

I decided to walk out and we then went private. Waited a couple of weeks had bloods and dd was anaemic and had coeliacs.
I complained to the hospital and this has taken months to investigate then again as they said nothing had been found the first time that the dr hasn’t done anything wrong so i said no look at this again and theybe come back with ‘sorry that you felt this way’ basically. No apology no admittance that dd had needed bloods nothing and I’m so cross we were treated like we wanted to hurt our child!
I don’t know what to do now all I’ve been able to do is leave an online review for this dr to warn others but she was abominable and I’m really upset that we don’t even get an apology

OP posts:
suspiria777 · 27/01/2021 12:11

From NHS:

An emergency department deals with genuine life-threatening emergencies, such as:

unconsciousness
acute confused state and fits that are not stopping
chest pain
breathing difficulties
severe bleeding that cannot be stopped
severe allergic reactions
severe burns or scalds
stroke
major trauma

Original poster
famedThesaurusofTheforgotten · 27/01/2021 12:11

[quote luxxlisbon]**@famedThesaurusofTheforgotten. That my dd was fine
That she looked fine
That the gp was right there was nothing wrong

A&E is there for immediate emergencies and accidents, it is literally in the name. They aren't there to diagnose chronic conditions, so as far as A&E goes she was fine as she was in no danger and in need of treatment at that time.

Everyone understands you were worried about your daughter but it is not the place for suspected anaemia, coeliac or diabetes!

If there is no current emergency then there is nothing for them to do and frankly all you have done is make someone with an actual emergency wait longer.[/quote]
Well actually had it been diabetes then yes a and e would be the place !

It could have been anything we were lucky it wasn’t more serious but her symptoms covered a range of possible diagnoses some of which coukd have been life threatening so the hospital need to learn from it

OP posts:
Lass67 · 27/01/2021 12:11

The first doctor was probably more junior and the second more senior and supervising the first.

I understand you were worried but further investigations should have been discussed with GP and write letter to practice manger if not getting anywhere. You seem to have focussed irrationally on this A&E dr.

Also...it sounds upsetting for you but having frequent colds isn’t a symptom of anaemia or coeliac- it sounds like if your daughter was having lots of non- specific symptoms it could have been tough to diagnose.

How old is she?

redsquirrelfan · 27/01/2021 12:12

@MissBaskinIfYoureNasty

I think taking a child to A&E with suspected anaemia was way out of line. The doctor was probably a bit annoyed at the misuse of A&E but could have been more polite I guess.
Well it would be if you could get to see a GP, but even before lockdown you needed a letter from the Queen to see one!
Original poster
famedThesaurusofTheforgotten · 27/01/2021 12:12

@Lass67

The first doctor was probably more junior and the second more senior and supervising the first.

I understand you were worried but further investigations should have been discussed with GP and write letter to practice manger if not getting anywhere. You seem to have focussed irrationally on this A&E dr.

Also...it sounds upsetting for you but having frequent colds isn’t a symptom of anaemia or coeliac- it sounds like if your daughter was having lots of non- specific symptoms it could have been tough to diagnose.

How old is she?

Sorry I meant cold as in she had a low temp all the time which really concerned me 34-35 and I was very worried
OP posts:
HoppingPavlova · 27/01/2021 12:14

She also has been left with a lot of issues as her gut was so damaged as was irritated for so long

Yes, no doubt. BUT, and the thing you fail to see or admit, is that it was not an emergency and you were not in the right place. That’s why you are getting the response you are to your complaint. The questions raised are why you were there, why you believed it was appropriate to demand a blood test, what qualifies you to do so in the context of the services A&E offers and the remit it operates under, and why you are not pursuing a complaint against your GP instead. Just as you are perplexed about the response, many others will be about the details of your complaint.

A&E would have assessed your child as not being in immediate clinical danger and acted accordingly. This is a long standing issue that requires routine general management. If that was inadequate then that’s where you direct the complaint. Then you will be taken seriously.

The initial kerfuffle re blood test would have been due to you being initially seen by a junior who needs to have things overseen/approved. It’s really like saying many people ‘could’ have an MRI, this would undoubtedly make a diagnosis easy in many instances but it’s generally not actually required to diagnose accurately and would result in budget and bed chaos. Juniors need to be reigned in and taught how to manage without unnecessary items.

Lass67 · 27/01/2021 12:14

Sorry missed that she was 5.

LiJo2015 · 27/01/2021 12:14

Just because the doc was an a and e doc does not excuse her for how she treated this patient. She should absolutely be aware of her actions. Too many docs get away with appalling bed side manner and actually in my experience many negative outcomes and experiences with patinets can be averted if docs demonstrated an ounce of humanity and empathy. Again i blame the type of people who are attarcted to a career in medicine and the medicine training regime and path which encourages and actually rewards tgis type of arrogance and lack of empathy towards patients.

Plutostar269 · 27/01/2021 12:14

I would have taken my child to A&E in the same situation OP. You didn’t know what it was at the time and it sounds very worrying. The A&E doctor shouldn’t have spoken to you like that no, I’m not sure what more you can do though. I would also complain to GP.

emilyfrost · 27/01/2021 12:15

You shouldn’t have gone to A&E; it wasn’t an accident or an emergency and you wasted their time.

A&E isn’t there to diagnose, so they were right to refuse bloods and further diagnosis because it wasn’t an accident or an emergency.

The hospital aren’t at fault here. The doctor you saw won’t have been shouting or screaming at you; that will have been how you saw it in your head because you were stressed and anxious and weren’t seeing things (or now remembering them) clearly.

Shmithecat2 · 27/01/2021 12:16

[quote luxxlisbon]**@famedThesaurusofTheforgotten. That my dd was fine
That she looked fine
That the gp was right there was nothing wrong

A&E is there for immediate emergencies and accidents, it is literally in the name. They aren't there to diagnose chronic conditions, so as far as A&E goes she was fine as she was in no danger and in need of treatment at that time.

Everyone understands you were worried about your daughter but it is not the place for suspected anaemia, coeliac or diabetes!

If there is no current emergency then there is nothing for them to do and frankly all you have done is make someone with an actual emergency wait longer.[/quote]
HmmHmmHmm

Ihatemyseleffordoingthis · 27/01/2021 12:16

Kindly, OP I think you should let it go. Whilst hosp staff might have shown a lack of empathy, it doesn't sound to me like a lack of appropriate care (no expert, just my persepective). And sometimes everyone has a bad day, as A&E staff they might have had to deal with all sorts of horrors before seeing you. Benefit of the doubt here. For your own mental wellbeing.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 27/01/2021 12:16

If she had been unwell for months and the GP wasn't listening to you, and you could clearly afford a private consultation, why didn't you do that rather than show up at A&E with a condition that was neither an accident or an emergency?

Your complaint is with your GP not the doctor at A&E.

whenthestarsgoblue · 27/01/2021 12:17

What exactly is the outcome you're hoping for? You got an apology - what are you after?
What is seeing the ombudsman going to go?
Prolonged damage is not the hospitals fault. I don't understand what exactly you're trying to achieve? Compensation?

Pillowcase123 · 27/01/2021 12:17

No I wouldn't take any child to A&E with those symptoms.

I'm glad you got a diagnosis in the end and it sounds like your DC is doing better which is great to hear. This should have been handled by your GP though an dthe complaint should be with them.

The A&E was right in that she didnt immediately need that blood test and she shouldn't have been in A&E. A&E is not an escalation route when your GP isnt listening. Having said that, if the dr was as rude as you outline, maybe a word with PALS could help

Couchbettato · 27/01/2021 12:17

Op I probably would have taken my son to A&E as well if he was sleeping days at a time.

It could have been completely unrelated to the symptoms she was previously presenting, and extreme fatigue is a symptom of many conditions, some which are considered critical.

How are you to know which condition that is? You're not a doctor (presumably).

I do think you should complain about the GP too. And perhaps anxiety is preventing you from deciding the right path to take. But I absolutely would have done the same in your shoes.

greatpopcorn · 27/01/2021 12:18

@LiJo2015 I'm not going to derail this thread, but that's an 'interesting' comment and medical training encouraging arrogance Hmm

SatishTheCat · 27/01/2021 12:18

@Jobsharenightmare

Hi OP,

Two issues here to me

  1. the manner of the A&E doctor re the needles comments in front of your daughter. Have you made it clear via PALS that your issue is how you were dealt with from a bedside manner POV not the clinical reasoning?

  2. your useless GP. This warrants a complaint as you should never have ended up going to A&E. The second day your 5 year old couldn't get up you should have requested an urgent GP appointment so it never became something you felt so worried about you went to A&E. If you did, but the GP did not see your daughter after you requested this, I'd make a complaint about that. I would also complain about the "viral" diagnosis without comprehensive investigations.

This. And to all others criticizing the OP, she was worried sick about her child and as not medically qualified, was not to know that it was not a medical emergency requiring A&E.
Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/01/2021 12:19

I was worried dd could have been really ill

I know you were, OP, and while the GP (if you could access them Hmm) may have been the better route, at any other time when it wasn't being suggested everyone in the NHS are faultless heroes you'd probably have been told you did the right thing

For me the greater problems would be the insistence your DD was fine when she clearly wasn't and the doctor's inappropriate manner, but the reaction to your complaint is sadly no surprise ... and I write as one who was actually assaulted by a member of staff and received much the same

Fortunately, even in thse difficult times, the majority of staff remain decent and caring, so in the end it's probably a case of "better luck next time"

Bollss · 27/01/2021 12:19

i dont think you did anything wrong op, and whether the doctor was pissed off or not, there is no way in hell she should have said that to you! There is no excuse for that. I can understand you were seriously worried about your very ill 5yo - i would have gone to a&e as a last resort as well, sometimes its the only way you ever get anyone to take you seriously.

And to everyone saying anemia isnt an a&e issue, no it's not but the symptoms op mentiones (Extreme tiredness, sleeping all day) can be signs of things that actually kill children. Its absolutely ridiculous to say you shouldnt go to a& e for that, its really, really bad advice. You should ALWAYS seek immediate care for things like that in such a small child.

luxxlisbon · 27/01/2021 12:19

@famedThesaurusofTheforgotten. "Well actually had it been diabetes then yes a and e would be the place !"

No it wouldn't. If someone was having a diabetic episode which made them pass out then yes, for 'suspected diabetes' based on tiredness and paleness no.

Another poster has listed the actual reasons the NHS give for A&E use, you might want to look over them.

No one is saying the attitude of this doctor was acceptable, but you aren't in the right either. Gracefully acknowledge that everyone involved was stressed and move on.

suspiria777 · 27/01/2021 12:19

going to A&E and inappropriately demanding blood tests for your 5 year old child in a non-emergency scenario because your GP hasn't investigated as you would like is like calling 999 and getting the fire brigade out to your home because your housing association haven't replaced the batteries in your smoke alarm.

HoppingPavlova · 27/01/2021 12:19

It could have been anything we were lucky it wasn’t more serious but her symptoms covered a range of possible diagnoses some of which coukd have been life threatening so the hospital need to learn from it

FFS. The hospital did the right thing. They established that at the time you took your child in the condition they had was not life-threatening. So they don’t need to learn from anything. Yes, the child may have a condition that needs to be managed, but there was no immediate danger so not within A&E remit for management. THE FEEDBACK IS RELEVANT TO THE GP.

A&E would not have discharged your child if they were in immediate danger. Given they were fine to wait several weeks to see someone privately proves that point.

LiJo2015 · 27/01/2021 12:19

@greatpopcorn

In my experience - absolutely yes.

Bollss · 27/01/2021 12:20

@whenthestarsgoblue

What exactly is the outcome you're hoping for? You got an apology - what are you after? What is seeing the ombudsman going to go? Prolonged damage is not the hospitals fault. I don't understand what exactly you're trying to achieve? Compensation?
"sorry you felt this way" is not an apology, its another way of telling someone it didnt happen.