To think this response to a hospital complaint isn’t good enough ?

[famedThesaurusofTheforgotten]

Dd had been unwell for some months in 2019. Repeated trips to gp. Nothing found.
Stomach aches, cold all the time, not growing well feeling sick etc etc all those sorts of symptoms and worsening. Kept being told ‘viral’

One week she was so unwell we took her to a and e as I suspected anaemia maybe as she was sleeping a lot and had no energy?
I was very worried we were seen and a dr said she probably needs some bloods done which I agreed with and we went to wait for the emla cream etc.

Then we were called through by a diff dr and agressively questioned then said she actually didn’t actually think bloods were needed i said I wanted her to have them done she kept shouting at me in front of dd ‘why do you want me to hurt her by putting needles in her ?’ And ‘I won’t stick needles in a child for no reason ‘
She was absolutely horrible told us dd was ‘fine ‘ That she looked fine I tried to explain she looked so much healthier a year before and had now become paler and thinner but she said no she looked fine to her

She was aggressive and was telling me I wanted to have my child hurt for no reason with a needle ??

I decided to walk out and we then went private. Waited a couple of weeks had bloods and dd was anaemic and had coeliacs.
I complained to the hospital and this has taken months to investigate then again as they said nothing had been found the first time that the dr hasn’t done anything wrong so i said no look at this again and theybe come back with ‘sorry that you felt this way’ basically. No apology no admittance that dd had needed bloods nothing and I’m so cross we were treated like we wanted to hurt our child!
I don’t know what to do now all I’ve been able to do is leave an online review for this dr to warn others but she was abominable and I’m really upset that we don’t even get an apology

Its understandable that you're angry but its misdirected and causing you to feel bitter, the gp kept insisting it was vital which is why you went to a&e. If you want to complain about an individual doctors attitude go through the GMC if you feel its appropriate but what outcome are you looking for.

This sort of thing is so endemic in the NHS that your complaint is likely not to be taken seriously.

In countries lije Germany, conditions like anemia are taken seriously, but in this country youre just meant to suffer or get it diagnosed and treated privately Much of the time.

@famedThesaurusofTheforgotten

She kept telling me how dd looked fine amd is seen her change in a few months to a pale thin cold exhausted child and was being told my child ‘looked fine’ I said to her ‘you’ve never really met us before you don’t know how she looked a few months ago and how unwell she now looks compared to then’ she didn’t care kept repeating she looked fine and why did I want her to be hurt

I thought I did the right thing it could have been any number of conditions I couldn’t have just waited and waited

Are you not understanding—A&E is for very time sensitive issues, like “I have been in a car crash and my leg just fell off” or “help my heart has stopped working.” Not “over the past 6 months there has been a notable decline in...” very very different situations, treated in different ways.

It sounds like the A&A doctors told you (rudely) to get out. They could have been nicer, but really this wastes millions a year and makes it harder for them to treat genuine emergencies.

YANBU and appalling you had to go private

Addressing your original point, OP, it sounds very similar to a response to a complaint I received. I had sent a long letter highlighting all sorts of things; I received an apologetic response but no admission that the clinical care was anything less than as it should be (despite the most recent appointment starting with the words, I don't know why you're here ).

I think there is extreme caution about anything put in writing in case it progresses further.

It's good that you got your DD sorted in the end - I can understand your frustration, though.

See if you have a health watch in your area - they collate patients experiences and have powers to go in and investigate if they notice a pattern. If someone else has also complained about paediatric care in A&E or that particular doctor they might be able to escalate it. If not then at least it's on record if someone comes forward in the future reporting similar concerns.

I’m sorry if the doctor wasn’t nice to you but did you speak to her with an attitude also. The a&e doctor can’t refer your child for further tests which is why they didn’t . The GP you see would have been the best option for a intolerance tests and for a gastroenterology appointment. Your child had been ill for months so it wasn’t right to rock up to a&e for suspected anaemia. Your complaint is down to the GP who you have seen previously not the doctor in A&e who was doing her job.

Given the subsequent diagnosis and the behaviour of the doctor concerned it might be worth considering complaining direct to the GMC.

I was genuinely worried if I’m honest that she had something very serious I think that’s what made me go to a and e and as it had been going on a while I didn’t want to waste time

I often question how much the NHS could save by not being utterly shite.

Undiagnosed coeliac is serious.

Good luck with your complaint, I would have done the same. You would not have know that it wasn't an emergency without the bloods so I don't think you misused A&E. Recently my husband went to A&E with a suspected heart attack, he was shouted at by a nurse asking why he'd come to A&E because they wouldn't be able to do anything anyway! I wanted to raise a complaint but my husband didn't want the added stress.

OP the system isn't fool proof or perfect, Im assuming someone did an assessment of your DD including observations, a doctor took a medical history, nothing was found that justified an immediate response/admission into hospital. Obviously as her mum you were worried and perhaps you should have been better reassured that there was nothing life threatening going on that required immediate action, the doctor was right your DD didnt have life threatening condition. But as other have said you wouldn't have got diagnosis of coeliac disease that day if bloods had been taken only a chronic anaemia and as said the lost likely outcome would have been a prescription for an iron supplement and possibly a followup appointment but not necessarily,

When the A&E doc said she looked fine - this was based on A&E standards.

(Arriving after an accident or an emergency, their patients tend to look very ill indeed... even someone who doesn't know them would be able to see this. They deal with bleeding out - not breathing - not conscious rather than sleepy etc.)

Your daughter's condition was serious and you were right to keep pressing for tests from your GP. As you said - it was something you felt was developing slowly over weeks. It really did need longer term investigation.

However, it wasn't A or E - serious is not the same as urgent.

Her condition needed investigation and escalation via the GP. That is where your complaint should be.

Regardless of whether A&E was the right place to go, you were treated poorly. I think you are right to complain. A doctor should be professional in all circumstances and treat patients with respect.

People who are being harsh on you, OP, don’t realise how dangerous undiagnosed coeliac is. I was told by the GP for months I was depressed. I lost so much weight it was ridiculous but the GP just told me to eat.
Eventually DH took me to A and E, hallucinating with pain.

I was one step from major organ failure because I was so badly malnourished nothing was getting through to my system. I’d kept saying to the GP “this sounds odd but I feel as though my food isn’t getting through to my body” and she told me I was being ridiculous. The villi in my intestines were completely worn away - I couldn’t absorb anything. I was in hospital for three weeks - that’s how bad it had got. It took me 6 months to have the energy to walk again and my body has taken into a couple of years to fully recover.

It could have been an emergency and don’t let anyone tell you you did the wrong thing.

The GP is at fault here too. I’d be persuing complaints against both, and continuing until you get a proper apology. DH complained to the practice manager at our surgery for fobbing me off for so long and we did get an apology.

YANBU op, but these days you have to fight tooth and nail for help. The NHS is broken. Well done for getting your daughter diagnosed. I’m afraid you can’t do anything to stop this person bullying.

I agree the issue wasn't one for A&E. However, I also know how frustrating it is to be repeatedly dismissed by the GP. It can leave you feeling helpless not knowing where to turn, so I can understand how you ended up in a position where you felt A&E was your only option.

Perhaps a complaint to the GP would be more practical, it was their lack of help which drove you to take her to A&E in the first place and so many others too.

When I nearly died from sepsis due to a number of failings by hospital and nhs 24 they wrote me the same letter. Sorry, we will ensure this doesn’t happen in future, we strive to deliver excellent care blah blah.

@earthyfire

Good luck with your complaint, I would have done the same. You would not have know that it wasn't an emergency without the bloods so I don't think you misused A&E. Recently my husband went to A&E with a suspected heart attack, he was shouted at by a nurse asking why he'd come to A&E because they wouldn't be able to do anything anyway! I wanted to raise a complaint but my husband didn't want the added stress.

I would have done the same too, and can’t actually believe some of the comments. Anaemia can be a symptom of many, much more serious conditions and op was right to take it seriously. The GP absolutely should have referred for tests but when faced with a small child with a worsening condition, and a GP that refuses to take action, what was she supposed to do? I certainly would not allow one of my dc to continue to suffer because of a negligent GP.

Op was able to afford to go private and find a resolution, but what if she couldn’t? Doctors have a duty of care and as much as the NHS is very much a valued institution it is under under severe pressure and far from infallible. We keep hearing these, hopefully uncommon tales, of doctors not taking patients justified concerns seriously, sometimes with grave consequences, and it is unacceptable. I would continue to complain, and include the GP in a future complaint. Hopefully if nothing else it may spark a review of their processes.

"I think you are right to complain"
If the doctor was rude then I have no problems with the OP complaining to PALS and she should have received an apology. But what more does she want? The doctor was right in their clinical decision making her DD was not acutely seriously unwell and didn't need immediate treatment of the sort that is offered in A and E or on an acute paediatric ward.

I don't think you did anything wrong with going to A and E OP. I have always been told if in doubt, go. Like you said, you couldn't of known what was wrong, your child was only 5 years old. Much better than the alternative.

It's easy for people to say they wouldn't of done this/that, I don't think there is many things most of us wouldn't do when it comes to our children, and thinking is generally not logical when it comes to the safety and health of our kids.

Think some people are being really unfair. Regardless of whether you 'should' of gone or not, there is no excuse for what she said to you. However, I do agree you need to take this up with your GP as well.

@famedThesaurusofTheforgotten

I was genuinely worried if I’m honest that she had something very serious I think that’s what made me go to a and e and as it had been going on a while I didn’t want to waste time

Have they done a blood test to check her B12? Coeliac disease prevents the absorption of B12 which can be a serious business. Unfortunately, doctors are very uneducated about B12d needing lifelong treatment. This site has links to lots of info and there are details for the site owners advocacy service if you need help getting doctors support for investigation and treatment. www.b12deficiency.info/what-are-the-causes/

I'm sorry that you and your child are going through this and if you wish to talk to others who have struggled to get help from doctors for themselves or their children, there is a huge FB group for people affected by B12d.
It's called Pernicious Anaemia/ B12 Deficiency - Support Group.

I’m surprised the doctor let you remove your daughter from A&E when they felt you wanted to hurt her, very surprised they didn’t call the social worker actually.

All those saying this isn't an issue for A&E - when children get ill they can become seriously ill very quickly. Like OP I had concerns about DD (she was 6 months old) and went back and forth to the doctors and was told it was viral. We ended up taking her to A&E when her temperature hit 40 (extremely high for 6 months). Again they said it was viral and sent us home. 2am we woke up to her convulsing and had to call an ambulance - she had developed sepsis from an undiagnosed UTI.

What I'm trying to say is that OP didn't know it was coeliac and anaemia when she went to A&E. her child's condition was worsening and she had an instinct things were wrong.

I work at a hospital and I know from clinical colleagues (I'm desk-based) they would prefer to see a false alarm with a child than for someone to not to bring their child in and it turn out to be something serious.

Who with all honesty can say they wouldn't do the same if they were seriously worried.

OP have you been in touch with your hospital PALS department? I'm sure the doctor was very over-worked but sometimes just a conversation from a senior colleague can correct behaviour like this and if you complain again you may be able to help this happen.