To think this response to a hospital complaint isn’t good enough ?

[famedThesaurusofTheforgotten]

Dd had been unwell for some months in 2019. Repeated trips to gp. Nothing found.
Stomach aches, cold all the time, not growing well feeling sick etc etc all those sorts of symptoms and worsening. Kept being told ‘viral’

One week she was so unwell we took her to a and e as I suspected anaemia maybe as she was sleeping a lot and had no energy?
I was very worried we were seen and a dr said she probably needs some bloods done which I agreed with and we went to wait for the emla cream etc.

Then we were called through by a diff dr and agressively questioned then said she actually didn’t actually think bloods were needed i said I wanted her to have them done she kept shouting at me in front of dd ‘why do you want me to hurt her by putting needles in her ?’ And ‘I won’t stick needles in a child for no reason ‘
She was absolutely horrible told us dd was ‘fine ‘ That she looked fine I tried to explain she looked so much healthier a year before and had now become paler and thinner but she said no she looked fine to her

She was aggressive and was telling me I wanted to have my child hurt for no reason with a needle ??

I decided to walk out and we then went private. Waited a couple of weeks had bloods and dd was anaemic and had coeliacs.
I complained to the hospital and this has taken months to investigate then again as they said nothing had been found the first time that the dr hasn’t done anything wrong so i said no look at this again and theybe come back with ‘sorry that you felt this way’ basically. No apology no admittance that dd had needed bloods nothing and I’m so cross we were treated like we wanted to hurt our child!
I don’t know what to do now all I’ve been able to do is leave an online review for this dr to warn others but she was abominable and I’m really upset that we don’t even get an apology

I guarantee there would be lots of "why are you posting on here? A&E. Now" type replies.

That’s not what the OPs issue is though. The OPs issue is they have complained about their experience in A&E and don’t like the feedback they received and want to take it further. The OP took the child to A&E who likely told them it wasn’t an issue that needed to be dealt with right there and then. The OP disagrees and feels they need to learn a lesson. All of that is not aligned with your repositioning of not taking sick children to A&E.

The bigger problem sounds like the GP.

Relegated appointments for months - like 6 months? What happened when you asked why they still thought it was viral? What happened when you suggested your suspicion of anaemia?

ED will have assessed a child with lethargy - the main concern would be infection - and with normal vitals and a chronic problem it probably wasn’t appropriate to take bloods then and there.

I’m afraid there are parents who try to ‘insist on’ or ‘demand’ bloods, cannulas, scans and lumbar punctures not understanding either the clinical indications or the very real risks of each. No intervention is benign.

@Meatshake

Guarantee that if there was a thread on here saying "my 5 year old has been in and out of GPs for last couple of months but we are getting nowhere, she's unwell, pale etc and now she's started sleeping during the day. She's so unwell today, I can barely rouse her. What can I do to get her help and get someone to listen to me?" I guarantee there would be lots of "why are you posting on here? A&E. Now" type replies.

@Meatshake

You’ve missed the point. The OP’s complaint is that A&E didn’t diagnose her child’s chronic illness. They examined her and - correctly - decided it was not an emergency. The GP is at fault here.

Parent of a young child with coeliac disease here. Diagnosed in a&e because GP dismissed drastic weight loss, vomiting and exhaustion as ongoing symptoms of viral infection. Repeatedly. In desperation we took her to the health visitor who told us to take her to a&e straight away. She was admitted and received a diagnosis after a couple of days of different tests, including various bloods. We later learned the doctors initially suspected cancer, and we only just avoided having to have a feeding tube fitted.
Some posters here evidently have no idea how seriously coeliac disease can present.
Oh, and we still have to take her to hospital for annual monitoring blood tests, because GP won't do this for very young children.
OP has my sympathies.

@Iwouldratherbemuckingout

Your next recourse is to the Parliamentary and Health Services Ombudsman, who are the last tier in the health complaints system. The NHS complaint handler should have given you this information!

Oh ffs why so much drama

Op has said she had tried again and again with her GP with no resolution to her dd’s symptoms. She went to A&E in desperation. Agreed it wasn’t an emergency, but she doesn’t deserve all this criticism.
Op I understand why the A&E dr dismissed you, but the dr there should have understood your very valid concerns and referred you on. I’m glad you still pursued a diagnosis and now your daughter is being treated appropriately.

OP I like how you said you ‘didn’t want to waste any more time’, while...wasting the a&e doctor’s time

it’s a shame she was rude but that’s life. it’s hard to remain 100% polite & professional when you’re faced with patients blocking a&e beds who don’t need to be there

I would have taken my 5 year old child to a&e with those symptoms too. Completely reasonable. Dr was inappropriate - shouting at you for asking about blood tests, well out of order. The GP warrants a separate complaint too, but ywnbu to take the a&e one further.

YANBU, I would've done the same.

You wouldn't have been in A&E if your GPs hadn't missed the diagnosis. Your complaint is with them. I would channel your anger into that complaint so that other parents get treated better. If you're ever in a road a accident, the A&E doctor is the one you want, as she is keeping emergency bays clear and freeing up resources.

Just a vent really but I am sick of the fact that it is impossible to get healthcare right now where I live.

GP surgery locked and only allowed to consult them by e-consult form so I can understand why people get desperate.

The reason the A&E doctor questioned you so aggressively is because healthcare workers have been bombarded with safeguarding training that tells them a parent pushing for medical testing is a red flag for FII (fabricated or induced illness).

You were treated poorly but don't expect a positive outcome to your complaint, the NHS closes ranks on this sort of thing and has become quite anti-parent. Just ask any parent of children with disabilities, autism or mental health difficulties.

The initial a+e doctor wanted to do bloods but due to other circumstances another doctor who sounded unbelievably rude took over.
Why is OP getting such a hard time? Her child was 5!
Any parent who is very worried about their child will do whatever they think is right and OP felt because her 5 year old was so lethargic etc if was an emergency.
A+E kids is nothing like the adult version and they are more than used to it being a mix of all reasons for worried parents to come in and would rather be safe than sorry.
Doctor in question had no place speaking like that to the parents, unprofessional at best and definitely not going on about needles hurting in front of the child.
I'm so sorry you went through this Op and glad you have a result for your DD. I absolutely think a complaint against this doc is warranted

I’m a doctor. I don’t think you were wrong to take your child to A&E - you were worried, and sleeping all day can indeed be a sign of something worse.

However, as others have said, A&E will have been reassured that her observations and urine dip were normal. They would have been confident that there was nothing that needed treating that day, and it could wait a week. It does sound like that particular doctor did not communicate this information to you well.

Life in the hospital is very tough at the moment. I often cry during my lunch from the sheer horror of seeing patient after patient die. Having to call their families and tell them their dad / husband is dying really takes a huge emotional toll. I am not using this as an excuse for her behaviour, but I think understanding where someone is coming from can make a huge difference.

I think if someone made a complaint about me at the moment, it would tip me over the edge to just quitting medicine. Formal complaints require a lot of paperwork and time on the doctor’s end, not just a quick telling off.

I want to reassure you that I expect the doctor has been spoken to and informed her manner was inappropriate, despite the letter not being overly apologetic. This tends to be how things are, as the hospital can’t apologise in writing without admitting fault and opening themselves up to be sued.

I am sorry it took your child so long to be diagnosed. Coeliac is an often missed but very important diagnosis. The trouble is that a lot of the symptoms are very vague (feeling tired, not growing as fast, looking pale etc). Often these symptoms do turn out to be nothing, and we don’t like subjecting children to blood tests which might make them scared of doctors in the future unless we are really sure they are required. It does sound like this was left too long in your situation though.

In essence, I can totally understand your annoyance, but would gently suggest not following up the hospital complaint, rather sending an informal letter to the GP letting them know what happened. If they are a good GP, they will reflect on this and it may help a similar child in the future.

I do hope your DD is feeling better now!

What @SevenMelon said, you put it much better than me!

I'm not sure if there's really much more you can do, but I'm sorry you had such a scary experience and hope your daughter is starting to feel better now. I don't believe we should 'put up and shut up' with a poor experience from the NHS just because it's free at the point of contact, but I'm not sure what the solution is. It must be a very frustrating oragnisation to work for as it seems so poorly managed, so I also have a lot of sympathy for the doctors and nurses.

I don't agree with the posters saying you overracted by making the complaint though. If the A&E doctor had legitimate concerns you were abusing your child surely there's a protocol she needed to follow to investigate this which it doesn't sound like she did? Also shouting at a parent in front of their young child isn't great as it's likely to make them wary of medical situations in the future, possibly worse than just having the bloods taken. It sounds like this doctor went against what the first doctor told you (needed blood tests) at the very least it's somewhat unprofessional and is just passing the problem on to another area of the NHS to be dealt with at some unspecified time in the future.

BuggerBognor I take your point. I suppose I think formal complaints can be taken out of proportion requiring a tonne of time and paperwork, when what that doctor needs is for someone to sit down with them and help them to understand why they made that mistake / reacted in that way and how to prevent that in the future.

I wish there was a better system for the above, and if that were how complaints were handled I would recommend everyone to make a complaint if they experienced anything short or optimal care.

You’re not going to get an apology because the A&E doctor hasn’t done anything wrong. Rudeness is subjective. The more energy you channel into this the angrier you’re going to get.

Let it go.

Raise the issues with your GP, this is where appropriate care should have come from.

@SevenMelon

I’m a doctor. I don’t think you were wrong to take your child to A&E - you were worried, and sleeping all day can indeed be a sign of something worse.

However, as others have said, A&E will have been reassured that her observations and urine dip were normal. They would have been confident that there was nothing that needed treating that day, and it could wait a week. It does sound like that particular doctor did not communicate this information to you well.

Life in the hospital is very tough at the moment. I often cry during my lunch from the sheer horror of seeing patient after patient die. Having to call their families and tell them their dad / husband is dying really takes a huge emotional toll. I am not using this as an excuse for her behaviour, but I think understanding where someone is coming from can make a huge difference.

I think if someone made a complaint about me at the moment, it would tip me over the edge to just quitting medicine. Formal complaints require a lot of paperwork and time on the doctor’s end, not just a quick telling off.

I want to reassure you that I expect the doctor has been spoken to and informed her manner was inappropriate, despite the letter not being overly apologetic. This tends to be how things are, as the hospital can’t apologise in writing without admitting fault and opening themselves up to be sued.

I am sorry it took your child so long to be diagnosed. Coeliac is an often missed but very important diagnosis. The trouble is that a lot of the symptoms are very vague (feeling tired, not growing as fast, looking pale etc). Often these symptoms do turn out to be nothing, and we don’t like subjecting children to blood tests which might make them scared of doctors in the future unless we are really sure they are required. It does sound like this was left too long in your situation though.

In essence, I can totally understand your annoyance, but would gently suggest not following up the hospital complaint, rather sending an informal letter to the GP letting them know what happened. If they are a good GP, they will reflect on this and it may help a similar child in the future.

I do hope your DD is feeling better now!

I have friends who are drs

All of them are broken. That’s the only way I can explain it. Utterly utterly broken. I read the corona virus threads which say about it’s only w virus that kills 1%. Etc and I wish I could show them my friends. Who were such incredibly strong people but who are exhausted. Mentally physically. They have nightmares from having to tell families over and over that their wife or mother or father or child has died. Seeing healthy adults die from this virus.

Broken. Broken heart. Broken body. Broken mind.

Hugs. If you ever need to talk xxx

I would have done the same @famedThesaurusofTheforgotten you had a sick child who was getting worse and no doctor was taking it seriously.

I would complain about your own doctor and the hospital doctor.

Hope your daughter is feeling better now.

@offbeatgirl coeliac can be very serious before it is diagnosed, several of my family members have it and luckily I don't although it was suspected, but your situation isn't really the same since your daughter was so ill that she was admitted into hospital after being seen at A&E. In this case the child was not so ill that they needed immediate treatment or to be admitted which is why A&E said she was fine. They obviously examined her, checked her vitals and hydration and their assessment was that she didn't need admitted for treatment.