AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question

[Angryresister]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:
“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask

I do not think I have ever insulted male sexed persons who wish to express themselves as female. I celebrate their right to be seen and heard.

It is not fair for the safety of women's spaces to be eroded however.

Third space please.

season does this meet your standards or shall I jump through some more hoops? TW are biological males. To say otherwise is magical thinking.

www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/sexual-predator-mark-brown-wig-silver-dress-student-wood-green-crown-court-b353856.html

Again for the people at the back ITS NOT TRANSPHOBIC TO DISCUSS WHY MALE BODIED PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE IN SPACES RESERVED FOR FEMALE BODIES PEOPLE. Honestly I think a lot of posters here are actually sure what the word trans means.

Season I'm not sure you're paying attention. This thread was moved to FWR, then MNHQ realised it was a mistake and moved it back.

So perhaps pointing to where they have outlined the policy you describe would be helpful.

They are protected - rightly - by this act and are free to use the facilities that meet their presented gender

Gender is too vague a term to necessitate provision of particular facilities for anyone. As soon as you start looking at areas where different facilities are necessary, the exceptions in the EA and GRA make sex the relevant factor.

@hellejuice91

I would say no, someone should not be banned for asking a question like this.

BUT

Maybe these types of questions has been asked in that space before and transphobic comments were made, maybe the page owner/group admin decided it was best to avoid any conversations of this nature going forward.

There have been enough transphobic comments made on this thread, let alone anywhere else on the internet.

This is a silencing technique @hellejuice91 you need to be specific as to where the transphobia is. You can report it and it will be looked at and dealt with if necessary. As other posters have said, this board is very tightly monitored.

We have quietly accepted it for years as they are no danger to us and are usually very discreet.

Please speak for yourself. I have never accepted it!

*aren't actually sure.

@HmmSureJan

Why aren't they? If either of you can let me know I'd be really interested. Genuine question.

Because it isn't about "wanting to pee in peace". It's about validation and making everyone women join in the pretence, and then exploding into utter rage when they won't.

100%

I am all for third spaces. When I said this on FB many of my LGBT friends called me a transphobe. There's no debate, for them. All or nothing. This really opened my eyes. It's not about trans people's safety - it never was. It's about women validating them.

I don’t think she should be banned for asking but my personal opinion is that trans women should use the women’s toilets.

I would not wet myself in public rather than take my little grandson into the Ladies.

Yes it's a straw man, but I'll humour it.

The rules at our local gym/swimming pool are that boys must use the male changing rooms once they reach age 8.

When my boy turns 8, we'll therefore need to move him to a later swimming class and his father will need to take over from me in accompanying him to his lessons. There is absolutely no way I would allow him to change in the male changing rooms by himself. (Incidentally, that's for the same reasons I don't personally want to share my changing facilities with bepenised people).

Yes, it will cause inconvenience. I've taken my son swimming (at the same gym) since he was 3 1/2 months old. It's a lovely bonding activity we have always done together. Furthermore I know there are an awful lot of mums who attend that gym with their sons and blithely override their wishes and rules.

I will not do that. First, I respect the rights to privacy and dignity of other women, I care passionately about retaining and preserving that entitlement, and am (and will continue to be) vocal about it. At best, continuing to take my son into the female changing rooms against the rules of the gym owners would make me a massive hypocrite.

More importantly, I will not raise my son to believe he can stampede over the rights of women and girls because it makes life more comfortable for him.

Who knows?, if more mothers took the same stance with their male children, perhaps we might not be in the everfuckingloving mess we're in now, and might not be in the position of trying to counter the worst assault on women's rights I've seen in my lifetime.

I am a previous victim of rape - there is simply no evidence whatsoever that a trans woman is likely to rape a woman. This is utter nonsense and such twaddle should be dismissed for the anti trans diatribe it is.

Tell that to the victims of Karen White.

Was Katie Dolatowski just being friendly when they sexually assaulted two children in the female toilets?

How do you think Katie Dolatowski's victims feel about entering a female only toilet on their own now? Or don't their feelings, safety, privacy and dignity count?

If trans women don't rape why are the Ministry of Justice being taken to court for allowing exactly that to happen to female prisoners locked up with trans women?

Trans women do commit rape and sexual assault, there's also a fair few of them in prison for viewing and distributing images of child sexual abuse, it is not anti trans to say so it is a fact.

@Fembot123

I don’t think she should be banned for asking but my personal opinion is that trans women should use the women’s toilets.

Only if they have a Gender Recognition Certificate imho.

@Fembot123

I don’t think she should be banned for asking but my personal opinion is that trans women should use the women’s toilets.

Hi Fembot, just to be clear, your answer to the OP question is 'yes, male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers'. ?

*More importantly, I will not raise my son to believe he can stampede over the rights of women and girls because it makes life more comfortable for him.

Who knows?, if more mothers took the same stance with their male children, perhaps we might not be in the everfuckingloving mess we're in now, and might not be in the position of trying to counter the worst assault on women's rights I've seen in my lifetime.*

Exactly. I have a daughter on the cusp of her teens, and a KS1 son. They both know their rights and my son will grow up knowing that just because he likes dolls and sometimes dresses up in his sister's frocks, it doesn't mean he's a girl. Gender is stereotypes and it benefits men every time.

[quote SeasonFinale]**@PhoebeSnow

"THIS SHOULD CONCERN EVERY ADULT HUMAN FEMALE ON HERE and their husbands, fathers, brothers, sons and other adult human males that they have in their lives !
Don’t you try to police what concerns every woman and girl on Mumsnet or anywhere else."

As a woman on Mumsnet don't tell me it concerns "every woman .. on Mumsnet" and why should it concern every adult human females and all those males you mention. Maybe it concerns some ant trans people, maybe it concerns some other people but it doesn't concern every single person and nor should it. I think people are basically good - they are not out to harm people, why would trans women be out to harm anyone?

If you come from a point of discriminating against a whole class of people I can see why you would have an issue. As I don't have such a viewpoint I can't see that there is an issue. Therefore as I also assume there are probably just as many people with my viewpoint as yours it doesn't "CONCERN EVERY HUMAN FEMALE" as per your ranty shout.

If you want to have 100% agreement then you can join the threads on the feminist page - as referred to by another poster who you also want to berate - because that is where MN has previously said such views should be discussed.[/quote]
Actually it does concern us all because the meaning of our language is being changed, not by consensus as is the norm, but by stealth and enforcement, and by the actions of platforms such as Twitter. If our culture is to change so be it, but it should happen by common agreement and not by bullying tactics and non-platforming.

I've seen TRAs on Twitter arguing that FGM isn't a female crime, and it's transphobic to call it that

I think there was actually a paper that wrote an article calling it Forced Genital Mutilation . So MSM have been complicit in that notion.

And yes I've seen plenty on twitter from sone TRAs. Usually ones that trans people on the same thread tell to shut up as it all actually harms their cause and many want nothing to do with that side if Things

@Fembot123

I don’t think she should be banned for asking but my personal opinion is that trans women should use the women’s toilets.

And transmen the gents? have you checked that the male population is in general is happy with female bodies in their loos!? And none binaries ? What about people who change gender on a daily basis ?

I think people are basically good - they are not out to harm people, why would trans women be out to harm anyone?

You are demonstrating why this thread needs to be on AIBU.

The problem is not trans women. The problem is men, and the default conversion of all single sex spaces to unisex spaces.

there is simply no evidence whatsoever that a trans woman is likely to rape a woman

On that basis, there's no evidence that any man will rape a woman. But they do. Or do you think that the countless number of rape victims are telling stories?

I am a previous victim of rape - there is simply no evidence whatsoever that a trans woman is likely to rape a woman. This is utter nonsense and such twaddle should be dismissed for the anti trans diatribe it is.

YANBU

It is very shocking the way that women are being treated on male-run, social media sites like twitter and reddit. These sites happily host all kinds of misogynistic porn, violent threats and abuse of women (see JK Rowling's treatment), yet women on SM are being banned for asking simple questions or making statements that are perfectly legal.

Most shocking to me was the banning of the reddit sub 'r/truelesbians' for lesbians. It was the only subreddit for females who are attracted to females (ie. same sex attracted). Apparently reddit classed it as a "hate sub" for being transphobic. I don't see why lesbians should be forced to defend the position that they are not attracted to "lady penis" and only want to date other females. Or why this position is considered "hate" given that so many lesbians and gay men fought for years to have social acceptance of same sex attraction.

Currently the biggest lesbian sub on reddit is for male-consumed lesbian porn and the other lesbian subreddit is run by a moderation team that is majority trans. It's like lesbians/females don't have a voice on social media sites like twitter and reddit unless it's a view mandated by people who are born male.

I don't see how women are going to be able to fight back when most social media is run by males for males.

I don’t think she should be banned for asking but my personal opinion is that trans women should use the women’s toilets.

The question was usually specifically about communal changing rooms. The question was usually phrased as it was in the OP. "Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?” Usually though, she qualified it as 'male people with penises' to be more accurate.

So, do these changes (which more accurately reflect Helen's question) make a difference to your answer?

I am a previous victim of rape - there is simply no evidence whatsoever that a trans woman is likely to rape a woman. This is utter nonsense and such twaddle should be dismissed for the anti trans diatribe it is.

But there is loads of evidence that biological men rape women what are you talking about? Replacing the words biological men with trans women doesn't change the statistics.

I just don’t understand why anyone thinks a male/female designation on a toilet door would deter a would be rapist.