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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU in thinking I can afford to move to Dubai?

348 replies

Partygirl2021 · 24/01/2021 20:12

I’m a single mum of a 15 month old, divorce should be finalised in a couple of months. It was always my dream to move abroad and Dubai is my first choice. My ex always refused to relocate. I earn £46k in London in a resourcing job. AIB unrealistic in thinking I could afford to live there? I know accommodation and school fees are high but I would love anyone’s experience.

OP posts:
Quaagars · 25/01/2021 23:45

As a single female living there, I wouldn't have felt protected in the eyes of the law

I feel the same
I know I'm no doubt going to get snorted at, but as a single female why would you feel happy going there?
As a married woman I still wouldn't feel comfortable going there as I know my husband would be thought of more highly than me!
Maybe it's better if I flaunt the white Westerner angle who potentially has money, still doesn't mean I would get treated the same as men though.
Maybe some are happy like seems upthread if you get treated like a dolly, a princess, doesn't mean you're independent though?
What would happen if you tried to think for yourself, thought fuck this and tried to just off?
Or got sexually assaulted?

Cheongfan · 26/01/2021 02:36

[quote WTAFIhavelosttheferret]**@WTAFIhavelosttheferret I'm not sure why you're calling people stupid!

That wasn't me- I quoted a previous post by NoOneOwnsTheRainbow that said God the amount of PPs who have no idea that when you move to Dubai/Singapore/etc you get paid MORE than you would in the UK to do the same job.

You can't quote if the previous post quoted and so I followed the etiquette of cut and bold.[/quote]
I realised almost immediately and corrected in the next post.

habibihabibi · 26/01/2021 03:58

I have lived in the region for years.
I started in Dubai in the early 2000s as a single and now am married with kids in Saudi.
In all of the GCC I have lived I have worked with single mothers.
In Riyadh I work with a woman whose child was conceieved by a donor. This is rare but it shows things are modernising.
You may encounter hurdles in obtaining a work permit, RP, CPR , Iqama etc ,if you were not married to the childs Dad but it is not impossible. You will need a competant HR and a solicters letter from the father.
Even with many years of experience in the area, KSA terrified me..
Actually I was very wrong, Saudis are the most generous and welcoming people and I feel very settled here.
At the end of the day , we all have choices and whilst many people say stay away, there are others who have a very full life in the Gulf .
If course there are problems but name a country that doesnt.

CaribouCarafe · 26/01/2021 04:49

@Quaagars

Surprised no one's mentioned Porta Potties yet

That's what they think of women

Intrigued?
I want to know but simultaneously don't want to know lol
I remember a thread on Dubai a while back, can't find it now but someone was saying how the women even have their own carriage, like it's a good thing, to keep you safe, treat you right
Me fuck no sounds too much like segregation to me!
Is that even a thing, or was the poster spouting bollocks?

@Quaagars there is a carriage on each metro which men are not allowed in but women are allowed in any carriage they like. It is not mandatory to stick to the ladies carriage.

Due to the culture here there are many opportunities for women to self segregate if they wish to. So in addition to general seating zones there is also a row of seats just for women, there are "ladies taxis" that women can use if they don't want to use a regular taxi.

These provisions are mostly taken up by more religious women but you're not told off for not using them if you don't wish to.

deletingsugar · 26/01/2021 04:58

Dad can stop you from moving even though he never sees his child. Fucking ridiculous eh?

Cheongfan · 26/01/2021 05:52

@habibihabibi

I have lived in the region for years. I started in Dubai in the early 2000s as a single and now am married with kids in Saudi. In all of the GCC I have lived I have worked with single mothers. In Riyadh I work with a woman whose child was conceieved by a donor. This is rare but it shows things are modernising. You may encounter hurdles in obtaining a work permit, RP, CPR , Iqama etc ,if you were not married to the childs Dad but it is not impossible. You will need a competant HR and a solicters letter from the father. Even with many years of experience in the area, KSA terrified me.. Actually I was very wrong, Saudis are the most generous and welcoming people and I feel very settled here. At the end of the day , we all have choices and whilst many people say stay away, there are others who have a very full life in the Gulf . If course there are problems but name a country that doesnt.
This is my experience as well and it certainly is possible for single mothers to sponsor their children in Qatar despite what has been said as I have worked with single mothers who sponsor their children. It's just a non-standard path and the employer has to be willing to push for it, and they're not always willing to waste 'wosta' on this.
JillGoodacre · 26/01/2021 06:04

Schools are very expensive in this part of the world, so make sure any package you negotiate includes school fees. If you're not putting your child in school straight away then you can hire a nanny. The UAE is relaxing some of the more draconian rules they did have. I'm in Kuwait and they wouldn't even entertain you being a single mother. Not saying I agree with it but it's just the way it is. Dubai is very expensive and we earn twice what you're on between us and we reconsidered a move there just because of the cost of living there. And it's crazy expensive where we are as well. If it's what you want to do then go for it, but it's not as glamorous as it looks on Instagram.

JillGoodacre · 26/01/2021 06:20

Also all these people going on about women being treated as second class citizens.. in my experience in the gulf it normally applies to locals. I've never had any issue organising phone contracts or anything else. I'm not saying I agree with it but it's just the way it is and no matter how much you pearl clutch about it it won't change in our lifetime. It's a very tribal and patriarchal culture here and it is changing. I live on a villa floor of a house that is owned by a Kuwaiti family and believe me, Women are the boss here. I've never felt as safe or respected as I do here.

goody2shooz · 26/01/2021 08:39

@WTAFIhavelosttheferret yes. she had her own (en suite) room, I haven’t seen a house in Dubai that doesn’t have a maid’s room, and a return ticket is part of the contract. Paid for by the employer not the maid. The passport is held by the employer because otherwise your maid could skip off (having been brought over, x rayed, visas, vaccinated etc, at the employers expense) with the family jewels etc. You may not like the idea but it makes it much easier to keep tabs on your population. Different countries, different rules. Friend’s bil was deported with 24 hours notice despite having lived there for 30 years - I’m sure a lot of British people and MPs would like the power to do that here with undesirables. Any non- Emirati can be deported within 24hours if the authorities wish.

jeaux90 · 26/01/2021 10:10

@Cheongfan I didn't say it was impossible just that it's much harder and whilst you are frigging around trying to sponsor your child because you are treated differently as a woman you end up having to fly in and out of the nearest country with them for the visiting visa.

Honestly the gulf is one of the last places I would go as a single female or single mother having lived there.

Lisathegreeter · 26/01/2021 11:00

If I was 10 years younger I would jump at the chance. I have been many times and my nephew lives there. Do visit first. You’ve started the process of getting as much info as you can. Don’t be put off your dream by people on here. Good luck. You only have one life.

sheridanstar · 26/01/2021 11:30

Dubai is a nasty place, borderline third world in many ways, but with a sparkly veneer and good PR team. To use coin a phrase, its a turd thats been polished.
I would avoid.

Fufumuji · 26/01/2021 11:38

Also all these people going on about women being treated as second class citizens.. in my experience in the gulf it normally applies to locals

Oh well, as long as you can be a rich white woman in Dubai, I guess that makes Dubai a fabulous place.

Woodworm2020 · 26/01/2021 11:51

I lived in Dubai for three years - I would say first and foremost do not go unless you have a job lined up. If you can find work, you'd probably be looking at earning the same/slightly higher amount as over here in the UK. Living costs are very high, so going without a job would drain your savings quickly.

Pros: childcare and domestic help are very cheap, weather is gorgeous for 5-6 months of the year, food is great (but expensive), rents are going down as the housing stock is huge, restaurants and nightlife are amazing.
Cons: Expensive, materialistic (sorry but its true), schooling is so expensive (but your little one doesn't need that yet), weather is terrible 5-6 months of the year - i'm serious you cannot go outside - can be hard with a little one (but you get uses to it). In the summer when its too hot there isn't so much to do, people just shop. It can be an incredibly unfriendly and judgemental place.
Overall I loved living there and missed it when I came home but honestly it felt like a small place in so many ways.
Good luck.

Cheongfan · 26/01/2021 12:17

It is not the norm for employers to hold their helper/housemaid/nanny's passport and isn't actually legal. The practice is part of people thinking they someone have a right to dictate another adult's life and is a part and parcel of the nasty side of the UAE that others have mentioned. Sadly, this is something that happens across nationalities living here and Brits are as bad as any. There is a dark side to the UAE. I don't deny that.

It's the joke: what's the difference between an expat and a racist? Two weeks in the Middle East.

SandwhichGenerationGal · 26/01/2021 12:29

@Quaagars

Women only carriages is definitely a thing but they are optional. Women can choose not to use them

WTAFIhavelosttheferret · 26/01/2021 12:35

[quote goody2shooz]@WTAFIhavelosttheferret yes. she had her own (en suite) room, I haven’t seen a house in Dubai that doesn’t have a maid’s room, and a return ticket is part of the contract. Paid for by the employer not the maid. The passport is held by the employer because otherwise your maid could skip off (having been brought over, x rayed, visas, vaccinated etc, at the employers expense) with the family jewels etc. You may not like the idea but it makes it much easier to keep tabs on your population. Different countries, different rules. Friend’s bil was deported with 24 hours notice despite having lived there for 30 years - I’m sure a lot of British people and MPs would like the power to do that here with undesirables. Any non- Emirati can be deported within 24hours if the authorities wish.[/quote]
So she was a modern day slave then?

The right to hold your own passport would seem to be a pretty large indicator of weather someone was being well treated. To deny a passport is a fundamental failing of human rights

Human rights are universally recognised. They are not dependant on the country that you live in.

SandwhichGenerationGal · 26/01/2021 12:35

I have visited many times and love it as a tourist. Not sure about living there though.
I was there a few years ago with my daughter and it happened to be Valentine’s Day.
Booked to eat dinner in our hotel. Fixed price buffet.
When it came to pay, we were charged significantly more than the advertised set price. When I questioned this I was informed ‘it’s a valentines price, you are not a couple’!
My daughter thought it best not to say ‘but we are a couple’ 😂

BolloxtoGender · 26/01/2021 12:38

OP YABVU. I've lived in Dubai. It's a miserable place if you don't have money. Also, it's risky and easy to fall on the wrong side of the law and things can go pear shaped very quickly.

Please do your research and not be blinded by the year round sunshine.

Kilcaple · 26/01/2021 13:01

@Fufumuji

Also all these people going on about women being treated as second class citizens.. in my experience in the gulf it normally applies to locals

Oh well, as long as you can be a rich white woman in Dubai, I guess that makes Dubai a fabulous place.

Yes, but you also need to be a rich white woman who doesn’t get in trouble with the law — which is Sharia-based and very different to the UK. Be sure you understand the law, especially decency laws and bankruptcy laws before you move to the UAE.

And don’t get raped and report it or you risk being prosecuted for extramarital sex, don’t get in a traffic accident where the other car belongs to an Emirati, in fact don’t get into any form of altercation with an Emirati, not even to one jumping a queue, don’t report a burglary if you’re not married to your partner. Don't assume things are the same in Dubai and Sharjah. Don’t have domestic help who gets in trouble with the law because, incredibly, you are legally responsible for her actions under the exploitative khafala system.

Don’t forget you are not living in a democracy, but a tribal dictatorship with a veneer of westernness because it needs foreign workers and tourists — it needs not to look like Saudi Arabia. You are living in one of the most surveyed countries in the world. The Emirati authorities are increasingly locking up their own citizens without fair trial, and confiscating their passports and harassing their families for the crime of criticising the regime. The press is heavily self-censoring, and any coverage of the royals is press releases and puff pieces.

Remember the media focus in the UK on the imprisonment and forced-abduction from the Indian Ocean of Princess Latifa, daughter of the UAE PM and ruler of Dubai in 2018, especially when the BBC screened a documentary? Not a mention in the UAE press. And, though not white, Latina is extremely rich and from the most privileged and powerful family in the country. Her sister Shamsa was also abducted back to Dubai years before after she escaped from family property in Newmarket.

See also Princess Haya, the Jordanian second official wife of Sheikh Mohammed, the same PM, who was divorced by him under Sharia law without her knowledge in 2019, escaped to London with her children and started court proceedings against his attempts to have the children returned to Dubai, and a forced marriage protection order for their young daughter (who was 12), while he claimed legal immunity to High Court judgements and am embargo on publication of court proceedings. The High Court Family Division found in March 2020 found that he had orchestrated the abduction of his other two daughters, as well as a campaign of intimidation and harassment against his ex-wife before and after she left Dubai. Again, this woman is a Jordanian royal and a multimillionaire.

Have a read up also on Sheikh Issa bin Zayed al Nahyan from the Abu Dhabi royal family, who was videoed raping and torturing, with several uniformed members of the Abu Dhabi police, a man he felt had overcharged him on a business deal. He apparently liked to have such things recorded so he could watch them later. When the tape was released in the USA, and caused an outcry, the Abu Dhabi authorities reluctantly had a formal trial, and found Issa not guilty (no reason given) and the victim of a conspiracy. The Palestinian former advisers who released the tape were both tried in absentia and sentenced to five years for allegedly drugging Issa and recording the ape to blackmail him.

CupOfTeaAlonePlease · 26/01/2021 13:09

Bugger human rights, eh?

Sun & shopping = weeeee!

thegreylady · 26/01/2021 13:23

My son says you could manage on £45k but couldn’t save.
They are having their Coronavirus vaccination today. It is free and the aim is to have the whole population vaccinated by the end of April.

Chargebeam · 26/01/2021 14:07

If course there are problems but name a country that doesnt.

Every country has problems, not every country locks up rape victims and executes gay people.

ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 26/01/2021 14:55

@thegreylady

My son says you could manage on £45k but couldn’t save. They are having their Coronavirus vaccination today. It is free and the aim is to have the whole population vaccinated by the end of April.
The Dubai population is 3.3m people. We've already given 6.6m their first dose in the UK.

And it's free here as well.

goody2shooz · 26/01/2021 15:23

@WTAFIhavelosttheferret ‘so she was modern day slave then’ is a huge insult to people who are or were slaves. That maid worked from 8.30am to 7pm with 2 hours off midday. She had plenty of food, her own phone provided, as well as uniform. She was not raped, beaten, deprived of food or medical care, decent clothing, bedding, made to work while ill or under extremes of weather. She asked to continue to work for the family ‘until my daughter finishes school’.
She was not a slave because her passport didn’t sit in her handbag.