AIBU in thinking I can afford to move to Dubai?

[Partygirl2021]

I’m a single mum of a 15 month old, divorce should be finalised in a couple of months. It was always my dream to move abroad and Dubai is my first choice. My ex always refused to relocate. I earn £46k in London in a resourcing job. AIB unrealistic in thinking I could afford to live there? I know accommodation and school fees are high but I would love anyone’s experience.

Heat in the summer months can often be brutal. Hard to imagine if you’ve never experienced it - it’s not like even the hottest Med area heat. Forget the beach, the sand will burn your feet.

At one point before the financial crash, there were actually plans to install under-the-sand refrigeration on a beach close to an expensive new development.

Should add that I lived in that part of the world for 13 years.

forgot who said it but how much is a four bed house to rent in Surrey that it's cheaper than Dubai? I can't find anything in Dubai for much less than £20k a year (AED100k) and pickings get slim below £30k (AED150k).

@Cheongfan

I'm in Surrey. There's a 4 bed house up the road from me which is currently being advertised as £1600 a month, so just under £20k, and several at £2k a month so £24k a year. We're about mid range.
The issue is often finding a 4 bed in a place you want especially if you're after a popular school. There's loads of 3 beds, and a fair number of really nice 5+ beds, but not so many 4s.

@MiladyBerserko

Shmithecat2 I didn't say no women worked there, I said single mothers. If that has changed in the last few years, ok, but given that KSA is light years behind even Dubai with its dubious record and that being a single mother there would be extremely difficult, I have difficulty believing that single mothers have the doors of the Kingdom thrown open. I am prepared to believe that some single mothers in certain professions might be ok and in highly controlled environments, in the same way that unmarried nurses have been going to Saudi for decades and had the times of their lives never leaving the compound. But doors open, your arse.

And yes, I have heard this defence of Saudi before, first hand, many times, then watched the clamberouring to move to Dubai when the opportunity arose.

You are of course at liberty to believe it is not a shitehole. I will go by the testimony of many friends and colleagues.

At liberty to 'believe'? I LIVE THERE. You've never set foot in KSA. I never said it wasn't a shit hole. Some of it certainly is. I was just pointing out your factually incorrect statements.

@ReceptacleForTheRespectable

Women are NOT second class citizens though, far from it. Women are revered but as an independent strong women you may find it hard to accept that the culture expects a man to be involved in everything.

So women aren't second class citizens, but the culture expects a man to be involved in everything? This makes no sense - total dissonance.

It would make sense if you lived there. Jeez you lot haven’t a clue how it is over there but your so quick to jump in with your uneducated opinions. It’s not a contradiction , it is a difference in cultural understanding. What WE see as 2nd class is our understanding, it isn’t the intent whatsoever. EG I as an independent woman would be asked for my husband when setting up a phone account because it was deemed beneath me to do this menial task. Not because they thought I couldn’t. It is their culture and if you can’t get your head around cultural differences, for goodness sake don’t mix outside of your family, it will blow your mind!

EG I as an independent woman would be asked for my husband when setting up a phone account because it was deemed beneath me to do this menial task

Sorry, but how is that any better?!
How can I be independent but then have to ask my husband if I wanted to do something as basic as set up a phone account?
Thinking of yourself (general yourself) like a princess, and others thinking it of you too, therefore you're above such technicalities, is NOT being independent!

OP it’s obviously your decision but Dubai is a bit Marbella to me. Full of the worst types of Brits living some pseudo riche lifestyle that’s as fake as the ‘islands’ they’re visiting. It honestly seems like a lot of try hard wannabes pretending they’re happy. Don’t do it for the sake of your child. The grass isn’t greener in Dubai, it’s plastic.

@19lottie82

Dubai? You couldn't pay me to go there. Awful human rights records. An artificial city in the desert.

Move somewhere nicer.

So you’ve never been? 🤔 it’s very strange that on threads about Dubai 90% of the people saying how terrible it is, have never even stepped foot in the place!

I agree i wouldnt set foot in the place but for the reasons above, thats literally it! Surely people form opinions of places they would or wouldnt go and then , go or dont depending on their opnion!

@Quaagars

EG I as an independent woman would be asked for my husband when setting up a phone account because it was deemed beneath me to do this menial task

Sorry, but how is that any better?!
How can I be independent but then have to ask my husband if I wanted to do something as basic as set up a phone account?
Thinking of yourself (general yourself) like a princess, and others thinking it of you too, therefore you're above such technicalities, is NOT being independent!

As you have zero understanding of the complexities of living alongside other cultures, it maybe doesn’t make sense to you, however if the OP wants to move to Dubai she DOES have to open her mind to a different way of thinking. It may never be comfortable to her but it’s not sexism, it’s cultural difference. She can either live with it or stay where society is more to her taste. The country is rife with many faults but saying they hate women and we are treated like 2nd class citizens is simply ignorant

@Sandfairy69

Oh aye, "Cultural Difference", right -

Here's what Amnesty had to say -

However, women continued to face discrimination in law and in practice. For example, the Personal Status Law of 2005 states that “a husband’s rights over his wife” include the wife’s “courteous obedience to him” (Article 56), and places conditions on a married woman’s right to work or leave the house (Article 72). Under Article 356 of the Penal Code, “debasement of honour with consent” is punishable by one year or more in prison. On the basis of this law, a Swedish-run hospital in Ajman Emirate was forced to report pregnant, unmarried women to the police. In some cases these referrals have led to prosecution and deportation.

The government failed to adequately protect women from sexual and domestic violence. Under Article 53 of the Penal Code, “a husband’s discipline of his wife” is “considered an exercise of rights”, language that can be read as official sanction of spousal abuse.

What exactly do you think it means for a woman to be treated as a second class citizen?

Being deemed incapable of arranging a phone contract - is this not an indicator of women having pretty poor status? What do you think it says about how women are viewed professionally? Their chances of getting promoted ahead of a man?

Wise up. What you are describing IS women being treated as inferior. It's disguised as a pedestal, but is nothing but a cage in reality.

Speaking as someone living in Dubai, I agree with PP expats - Dubai can work for you as long as you have: a high enough salary, paid accommodation allowance, good health insurance paid by your company, and clear goals for what you want to achieve here.

You need to work out a plan of how much you want to save each year and rigidly stick to it - too many expats move over here with good intentions, get caught up in the lifestyle, and end up in debt despite high salaries and good packages.

Without the accommodation allowance, my DH and I would never have moved here as rents are extremely expensive, especially in nicer areas. We lived in a 1-bed near the desert for the first 2 years so we could save 1/3 of our accommodation allowance each year. We've since moved to a nicer area as rents dropped dramatically during COVID and still saving a portion of the allowance each year.

Again, as a previous PP stated, you will have to pay rent in large chunks (1, 2, 3, or 4 cheques per year) with rent being generally lower for those paying it as an annual lump sum - some employers will therefore give you your annual accommodation allowance up front, however they will recoup these costs if you leave the company before the year is up (so for example if you leave 9 months after you get paid your allowance you must pay back the other 3 months, for any given year).

Flight allowance is also a thing here - again, DH and I save a portion of our flight allowances each year, as our savings goal is to buy a house outright when we move back to the UK.

For childcare, I can't speak from my own experience as I'm married without children but I believe a live-in maid is usually the most affordable option if you have a place with an additional room. On the plus side, this gives you the opportunity to employ someone directly and give them a fairer contract that they may have got elsewhere - just because you can employ a live-in maid cheaply doesn't mean you should. Nurseries can be expensive.

Entertainment is as expensive as you make it. The beach is free, walking in the malls is free, visiting nature spots and points of interest is free. My friends often go to the desert on weekends, they take advantage of free camping opportunities - there's some great beaches on the opposite side of the country (a few hours drive) where both locals and expats set up tents with no pitching fees or any pre-booking!

If you want to go drinking....it's expensive. A pint of beer can set you back a tenner. You will need an alcohol license if you want to legally purchase and consume alcohol in your home (although you can pick up some alcohol at the duty free at the airport). Some expats will drive to other Emirates to pick up alcohol without a license, but if you're caught (which is admittedly unlikely) you may be fined.

Dining is as expensive as you choose to make it - you can pick up a very cheap biryani or a hellishly expensive lobster. Grocery shopping will be more expensive in the UK and can be as expensive as ordering takeaway.

A used car can be inexpensive if you look for a good deal - buying straight from an expat is generally the cheapest option, as people often leave the country in a hurry and are looking for a quick sell. Petrol is cheap.

You can pick up second hand furniture with a modest budget, many items will be relatively new. In fact, you can often get unused second hand IKEA furniture on Dubizzle as the grace period for returning items is much shorter here than in the UK/people change their minds quickly here.

Another thing worth negotiating into any contract is your moving costs - some expats have contracts that pay for relocation to and from the UAE. This will potentially save some stress when you choose to move back.

However, for a good contract as outlined above, bear in mind the contract will likely ask you to guarantee working for the company for a minimum period (e.g. 3+ years). There's enormous costs that the sponsor (the company) will have to pay for Visas and for sorting out relocation to Dubai, so they will expect you to stay.

If you work for a bad company, they will exploit this as they know that they have power over your residential and financial status. If you work for a good company, this will not be an issue. So do your research on the company providing the employment offer first. An international organisation is your best bet for this.

Some companies are in financial trouble at the moment and unable to pay salaries on time - watch out for this as you don't have the same rights as in the UK, will not have a union, and cannot strike. It will also be harder to take your company to court than in the UK.

Last, but not least, think about your pension in advance - set some money aside while you are here for a private pension and make voluntary contributions for your National Insurance in the UK. You will be given an 'end of service gratuity' at the end of your employment in Dubai which I think in theory is meant to be in lieu of a pension, however it is a comparatively very small amount. You will also not get a contract where your employer matches your pension contributions - so this can have a large effect on your retirement if you stay here longterm.

So in essence, you can move to Dubai but only if you have the following in place first:

• A good contract at a good company with a high salary, accommodation allowance, comprehensive healthcare, flight allowance.
• Enough savings to cope with unexpected costs/potentially not getting paid on time/paying rent up front
• A plan of how much you will save, and what your threshold for 'getting out' will be if things don't go to plan.
• Make voluntary NI contributions to account for lack of contributions whilst you're out of the UK

Dubai wasn't my ideal location to move to - it only happened because Brexit happened and my EU national husband found it impossible to get hired in his industry in the UK afterwards. He got an offer in Dubai after 6 months of unemployment and applying to every job in the UK within his industry, so we decided to go to Dubai and save up enough to enable him to be eligible for a visa when we move back to the UK.

I won't go into the negatives of the move here, but I will say the following:

• Dubai is much, much safer than the UK. If you leave your bag unattended, there is a low likelihood that it or anything within it will be stolen. Likewise it is safe to walk down the street alone at 3am.
• The government takes decisive actions towards public safety, COVID has been much better handled here than in the UK and we live a relatively normal life here.
• Children are more accepted here than in the UK. Emiratis love children and don't expect children to be exceptionally quiet and well-behaved - they expect noise, running around, and for kids to be a part of everyday life. You don't get people side-eyeing your baby at a restaurant, they're more likely to come over and compliment them!
• There's a whole load of nonsense upthread about women's employment rights/status and driving rights in the UAE - a vast proportion of women do work in full-time employment here and can obtain a driving license with no issue. Dubai is genuinely trying to level the playing field with women's participation in the workplace and with regards to social rights. You can look up the UAE laws yourself and assess how they differ to laws in the UK with regards to women and decide whether it's something you can live with, but it's not a Medieval situation.
• Annual leave is shorter here - just 22 days. Maternity leave is just 45 days (I know this isn't in your consideration at the moment! But just an FYI). In addition to this you will have public holidays (minimum 7 days, but more if they don't fall on a weekend). So best to plan your annual leave around the public holidays to get more bang for your buck.
• Client's expectations aren't the same as in the UK - more will be expected from you with less leniency from those higher up in the hierarchy. There is a sense of hierarchy which you will be expected to respect. If you're service-oriented and patient then you will be able to do well. If you're short-tempered and inflexible then it will be a nightmare for you, and you likely won't be employed for long!
• From what I can see, worker's rights for construction and labor workers have improved over the last 10 years, but aren't on par with the UK. This is an uncomfortable reality, and should be kept in mind. Give tips where you can and be forgiving if you receive a less than optimal service, because they're working very hard for peanuts.
• Lastly, don't believe what you read in the media. The UK media portrays the Emirates very, very differently to what the reality is here - the horror stories often leave out key elements. For example, how drunk or abusive the 'innocent Brit' was. There is no tolerance for swearing, abusive language, or rude gestures here and that is often what they get arrested for, not just "wearing a mini skirt". Most locals don't give a fig about what you are wearing, but if they do approach you then they expect you to apologise and tell them that you will change your clothes to something more appropriate. Likewise, with behaviour - if someone tells you they are offended, apologise and make amends rather than fighting with them. At the end of the day, you're in their country and if you can't abide by the local customs then you should stay in the UK.
• It is very difficult to get a contract outside of the Dubai, there are thousands of people applying from around the world and most companies will not even look at a CV from someone not already in Dubai. So find a very good recruiter in the UK or get an internal job transfer to Dubai, because applying through LinkedIn will be completely useless. Getting a job in Dubai is mostly a case of having the right contacts, meeting employers face to face and/or luck.

This post ended up being far longer than intended - sorry!

You can’t just take a baby out of the country.

It sounds like this is the kind of thing you do before having kids, not after.

It’s not to say you’re at all wrong for romanticising this imaginary move, but that ship has sailed.

Why don’t you go on a holiday there instead?

It sounds like you’re bored & craving change. Create that change within the world you have.

Call me crazy but I wouldn’t want my child raised in a middle eastern country & am childfree.

What you are describing IS women being treated as inferior. It's disguised as a pedestal, but is nothing but a cage in reality

Exactly
It's being treated like a dolly, a princess, "less than" - but apparently it's OK because you're treated "well"
That's not being treated well.
It's being treated as other.

There are plenty of 'housewives' (aka SAHMs) in Dubai, particularly with young children. That said almost all the women I know work and the ones that don't usually have the same motivations as you would back home - wanting to be with family / childcare costs too high to make work feasible / difficulty finding term time only work / want to work but Covid and the economic crash means jobs are in short supply. On my team, all the women work (obviously) and 4/5 of the men have working wives.

People who go to Dubai or the UAE on holiday and come back saying 'it's all fake, I couldn't live there' don't actually know Dubai or the UAE. I can't remember the last time I went to a shopping mall or a posh hotel. There is far more to the UAE than that.

Summer is shit though and there is massive racism and bad treatment of some groups (particularly migrant workers). I won't pretend it's anywhere near perfect. But it would be a great place to be a single mum IF you made enough money.

@Witchend

forgot who said it but how much is a four bed house to rent in Surrey that it's cheaper than Dubai? I can't find anything in Dubai for much less than £20k a year (AED100k) and pickings get slim below £30k (AED150k).

@Cheongfan

I'm in Surrey. There's a 4 bed house up the road from me which is currently being advertised as £1600 a month, so just under £20k, and several at £2k a month so £24k a year. We're about mid range.
The issue is often finding a 4 bed in a place you want especially if you're after a popular school. There's loads of 3 beds, and a fair number of really nice 5+ beds, but not so many 4s.

Thanks. I thought it didn't make a lot of sense. I can understand the point on availability but equally if you want houses right next to popular schools in Dubai you're often looking at more like AED200k (£40k)+. I know I've been avidly scoring the market looking for 4 beds for under 140k!

@Quaagars

What you are describing IS women being treated as inferior. It's disguised as a pedestal, but is nothing but a cage in reality

Exactly
It's being treated like a dolly, a princess, "less than" - but apparently it's OK because you're treated "well"
That's not being treated well.
It's being treated as other.

Yes, being treated as a dolly is what I was thinking!

It's like saying that upper class women were treated as equal in the 19th century because they weren't expected to do anything except a bit of pretty needlework. Manual labour, intellectual tasks and political debate were considered far too taxing for them, and beneath them. They were pampered ladies of leisure but they were excluded from most spheres of life.

My best friend lives out there. Very nice lifestyle with a housekeeper and nanny although she struggles with the inherent racism of that. She would be on about your salary here but on 6 figures there with no tax. Her kids are in an international school abd that is very expensive. But, her husband works too - so I'm not sure you would get her lifestyle on one salary. You need to work for one of the govt companies eg Jumeirah as that normally includes accommodations and schooling. Don't go without a job.

She can't afford to come back to the uk though as the cost of living is so high it's impossible to save significantly.

On the surface it's all glitz and glam but it's horrendously expensive with some shocking poverty and inequality all around.
Plus the list of dos and don't are endless.

Several colleagues went over to have a look when our company was looking for people to transfer to the Dubai office. They all said the same thing. Just one block from that glitz and glam was a pretty hideous place. One guy's wife was propositioned about 3 times in the first hour they were out taking a look around. So much for "respecting a british passport"

Not somewhere I'd like to be, or raise a child.

She can't afford to come back to the uk though as the cost of living is so high it's impossible to save significantly.

If she is on 41k a month and her husband works as well this is choice because she wants the lifestyle more than savings. She absolutely could save if she wanted to. It's very common that people feel the need to keep up with a special lifestyle and prioritize that over savings. That's up to the individual but it shouldn't be presented as anything but a choice.

Have a look at the Dubai/Middle East sections on Expatwoman.com and BritishExpats.com - there is a wealth of info on there. You will need to get a residence visa, which will be sponsored by your employer. Maybe post on one of those sites and ask about being a single mom. Hope this helps.

I’ve only visited Dubai, personally I wouldn’t choose to live there as I didn’t feel accepted as a dark skinned person. I found a few staff (including at the airport/shop/cafe) were racist towards us (also sadly the migrant workers there experience bad treatment).

I know plenty will argue but the U.K. can be racist too - but it was more socially acceptable there, no one batted an eyelid at staff treating others differently.

I’m sure if you’re white you’ll be fine though - as pp said the locals loved her blonde blue eyed child.

@MiladyBerserko please listen to @Shmithecat2 on her comments regarding livnig in KSA. Her views reflect my reality of living in KSA much more closely than yours do.

@Partygirl2021 I think it would be tough to get the relevent permissions from your ex to get your child a Visa. I also think £46k, without an expat package including medical, accomadation and schooling would be tough (would you live in the SE and pay for private schooling on that money?). From my KSA experience, I'd also check that any childcare ran through the summer - most round me stopped during the (long!) summer holidays. Good luck if you go for it.

If you are interested in culture you won't get much. 60 yrs ago it was a non-descript fishing village.

Though I'm sure it won't be long before you can go on a modern slavery tour?

Or there are the shopping malls?

OK, this is probably going to sound a daft question, but why are people talking about KSA and Dubai when they're two completely different countries?
As far as I know, Dubai is United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia is Saudi Arabia (obvs)

@Quaagars

OK, this is probably going to sound a daft question, but why are people talking about KSA and Dubai when they're two completely different countries? As far as I know, Dubai is United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia is Saudi Arabia (obvs)

Earlier on in the thread, someone mentioned incorrect stuff about Dubai that actually related to Saudi. The rest is history and has somewhat derailed the thread, but imo that's not a bad thing. It would be best for the OP to repost in the Living Overseas sub forum where people who actually know what they're talking about/have lived in Dubai can advise.